Monday 11 January 2010
Comment from Martin about T Gouw's teaching on end times..
don't have any "end times" teachings any more after He stripped away a literal 3 dimensional physical second coming from my theology 3 months ago as being Unbiblical and took me through Acts, Colossians, Zechariah, Isaiah, Malachi, 1Thessalonians, 2Thessalonians, Hebrews, 1John, and Revelation about it. However, I am anticipating the fulfillment of the entire book of Zechariah in my ministry;-) Now there's a heresy for you roflol Whole book is prosperity theology at it's finest, and an exit from Babylon is the Biblical equivalent of an exit from Egypt with the gold, silver, and apparel. When Lord Jesus preached that one to me on October 15th about the iniquity of the land and the spirit of uncleanness being removed from the land in one day and about all of the prosperity that was to flow like blood to the horse's bridle over the face of the whole land....
End Time Doctrine
There is still bags in the interview doc with Martin with regards to end time teachings. But I think T. Gouws's teachings on the matter helps to fill in those gaps. I include:
Seminar 14 Nov 09 Tom Gouws
"Falsehood has an infinity of combinations, but truth has only one mode of being" J.J. Rousseau
7 Principles we need to understand first before we go into the teachings of end times. These concepts needs to be understood as foundations.
1. End time is not in the time we live now. It started when Jesus rose up from the dead. This is proved by 1 Cor 10:11
See also Gen 49:1, Eseg 38:16
See also Heb 1:1
2. The word in Greek for coming is "ergomai". Somebody coming on the cloud.
But it can mean somebody coming or going.
Paulus went up (ergomai) to heaven.
Porusia (coming again) can mean from somewhere or to manifest or "to come into being" or "to be established". Mat 16:28
Jesus said that there were people there that would not experience death before He comes, meaning manifest.
3. Christ must remain in heaven until the time when everything will be restored as God promised. Acts 3:21
The enemy wants us to fear. Fear stands against faith and love.
We are chosen in Yahweh to redeem all things to Him.
4. Mat 11:13
The smallest in the next "epog" (time - don't know english word) is bigger as John the baptism.
We have the Spirit in us, and they didn't have the Holy Spirit.
Old Testament was law. It prophecied about the end time.
John come to introduce the new dispensation from Jesus Christ.
Everything about the Old Covenant shows to Jesus. All Old Covenant is fulfulled. It had been completed, fulfulled in Yashua.
New Testament started when Jesus rose up. It didn't start at the beginning of the gospels!!!!
In the New Covenant we are being lead by the Spirit.
Elijah and Moses are being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the law and the prophets.
5. John 3: 12,13
Nobody in this epog taken to heaven
6. Op 11:15
Kingdoms to become Christs.
Jesus - only King.
1 Cor 15 : Jesus to present this entire Kingdom to the Father.
Bride to rule with Jesus on earth, He the head.
7. John 12:31,32 and Eph 4
Satan lost his hold over the children of light. On the cross the old man and old nature had been nailed.
Satan has no hold on you when you are in Christ.
He is already defeated. Already judged.
----
Jer 29:11
Fear of God being a manmade institution, and because of that the book is sealed or peoples eyes are sealed, because they still operate in manmade fear
-----
Some more points he made
1. The Bride is not the whole church
2. Jesus comes back for a triumphant bride who manifests the DNA of God
3. Malchesedec Priedthood
4. Not to heaven
5. Dragon - defeated
6. Bride is in Holy of Holies (other christians still in outercourt or holy place)
7. Predestination is not in terms of being saved, but in terms of being part of the Bride. Everybody can be saved, but Yahweh selects His bride
8. Cloud of witnesses
9. New Jerusalem is not physical resurrection of a place in the natural, physical Israels time has come to an end, it is now time for the Spiritual New Jerusalem, built with living stones to arise. The Bride.
------
Topic 1 : about Matthew 24 - the end time predictions.
1, Jesus said that all those things would come upon THAT generatiion, and it DID,
2. When will these things be and what is the sign of your coming (meaning manifestation).
3. It is the closing (end time) of one dispensation and the beginning of the next. The end of the world as it was then. The beginning of the New Covenant.
4. Son, moon and stars are symbols of authority. Authority had been lost.
5. He comes in the Cloud. Cloud of witnesses.
6. Learn from fig tree (fig tree is symbol of Israel). This generation ended before 70 After Christ.
"Religion is what is left after God has left the building".
-----
Topic 2 : Daniel 9
70 prophetic weeks (referred to as p.w. Hereafter) (490 years).
It is about his Jewish nations, that is what Daniel fasted about.
Each of the 7 things Jesus came to do, on the timeline
1. Artasata gives command to restore Jerusalem 457 BC
2. (7 p.w.) 49 years
Temple completed 408 BC
3. (62 p.w.) - 434 years
Jesus baptised
27 AC
4. (Half p.w.) - 3.5 years
Jesus crucified
30 AC
5. ( Half p.w.) - 3.5 years
Stoning of Stevan
34 AC
This adds to 70 prophetic weeks.
70x7 is the full measure of forgiveness
Physical children of Abraham had been REPLACED by the spiritual children of Abraham just as the spiritual circumsision of the heart had replaced the physical circumsision.
------
The rapture.
Proverbs 2:21
Righteous shall inherit the land.
Proverbs 10:30
Righteous shall not be moved
See also Psalm 37:9,10
Psalm 115:16
Heaven is for the Lord and earth is given for mankindm
John 17:15
Jesus prays that they will NOT be taken OUT of this world but that they will be delivered from evil
Dan 7:27
Rulership is given to the saints
The earth and the fullness thereof belongs to the Lord.
Romans 8
All creation cries out...manifestation of sons of God
Revelation 2:26-28
We must rule!
He who overcomes, rulership over nations.
Ps 27:27
Will forever dwell...
Mat 5:5
Meek will inherit the earth
Titus 2:13,11
John 14:1-4
2 Cor 5:2
1 John 4:12
1 Thes 4:13-18
Rapture : acts 8:29
He manifests.
Glorified body.
Blood out.
Vains are filled with light not blood.
Presence of God was with them..
To be raptured like Phillip - to be united with Him.
Nobody will take you from my hand (rapture)
See also
Jude 14:15
1 Thes 3:13
Mat 13:24-30
----
Topic 4 : Revelations
This is the Revelation OF JESUS CHRIST ( Rev 1:1)
Written before the book of John.
John didn't write seperate chapters about end time like other gospel writers, for it was already covered in his book Revelation.
Time is close Rev 22:10
Holy Spirit came and told them all they had to hear.
Nero was that AntiChrist
2 Peter 1:3
3: 7-13
Fire?
2 Peter 3
Your way of thinking can also burn.
Gal 4:3-9
Col 2:20
Old earth - old way of thinking.
Has to be destroyed with fire.
Dimension of His glory, Holy of Holies, is a new way of thinking.
Gen 8:21,22,4
Offer with fire.
1st offer in new epog (time dispensation).
Promise made.
Arc, on 7th month on 17th landed on mountain ararat.
It was the same day that Jesus rose from the dead.
And Ararat means "God reversed the curse"
Noah means rest.
Seminar 14 Nov 09 Tom Gouws
"Falsehood has an infinity of combinations, but truth has only one mode of being" J.J. Rousseau
7 Principles we need to understand first before we go into the teachings of end times. These concepts needs to be understood as foundations.
1. End time is not in the time we live now. It started when Jesus rose up from the dead. This is proved by 1 Cor 10:11
See also Gen 49:1, Eseg 38:16
See also Heb 1:1
2. The word in Greek for coming is "ergomai". Somebody coming on the cloud.
But it can mean somebody coming or going.
Paulus went up (ergomai) to heaven.
Porusia (coming again) can mean from somewhere or to manifest or "to come into being" or "to be established". Mat 16:28
Jesus said that there were people there that would not experience death before He comes, meaning manifest.
3. Christ must remain in heaven until the time when everything will be restored as God promised. Acts 3:21
The enemy wants us to fear. Fear stands against faith and love.
We are chosen in Yahweh to redeem all things to Him.
4. Mat 11:13
The smallest in the next "epog" (time - don't know english word) is bigger as John the baptism.
We have the Spirit in us, and they didn't have the Holy Spirit.
Old Testament was law. It prophecied about the end time.
John come to introduce the new dispensation from Jesus Christ.
Everything about the Old Covenant shows to Jesus. All Old Covenant is fulfulled. It had been completed, fulfulled in Yashua.
New Testament started when Jesus rose up. It didn't start at the beginning of the gospels!!!!
In the New Covenant we are being lead by the Spirit.
Elijah and Moses are being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the law and the prophets.
5. John 3: 12,13
Nobody in this epog taken to heaven
6. Op 11:15
Kingdoms to become Christs.
Jesus - only King.
1 Cor 15 : Jesus to present this entire Kingdom to the Father.
Bride to rule with Jesus on earth, He the head.
7. John 12:31,32 and Eph 4
Satan lost his hold over the children of light. On the cross the old man and old nature had been nailed.
Satan has no hold on you when you are in Christ.
He is already defeated. Already judged.
----
Jer 29:11
Fear of God being a manmade institution, and because of that the book is sealed or peoples eyes are sealed, because they still operate in manmade fear
-----
Some more points he made
1. The Bride is not the whole church
2. Jesus comes back for a triumphant bride who manifests the DNA of God
3. Malchesedec Priedthood
4. Not to heaven
5. Dragon - defeated
6. Bride is in Holy of Holies (other christians still in outercourt or holy place)
7. Predestination is not in terms of being saved, but in terms of being part of the Bride. Everybody can be saved, but Yahweh selects His bride
8. Cloud of witnesses
9. New Jerusalem is not physical resurrection of a place in the natural, physical Israels time has come to an end, it is now time for the Spiritual New Jerusalem, built with living stones to arise. The Bride.
------
Topic 1 : about Matthew 24 - the end time predictions.
1, Jesus said that all those things would come upon THAT generatiion, and it DID,
2. When will these things be and what is the sign of your coming (meaning manifestation).
3. It is the closing (end time) of one dispensation and the beginning of the next. The end of the world as it was then. The beginning of the New Covenant.
4. Son, moon and stars are symbols of authority. Authority had been lost.
5. He comes in the Cloud. Cloud of witnesses.
6. Learn from fig tree (fig tree is symbol of Israel). This generation ended before 70 After Christ.
"Religion is what is left after God has left the building".
-----
Topic 2 : Daniel 9
70 prophetic weeks (referred to as p.w. Hereafter) (490 years).
It is about his Jewish nations, that is what Daniel fasted about.
Each of the 7 things Jesus came to do, on the timeline
1. Artasata gives command to restore Jerusalem 457 BC
2. (7 p.w.) 49 years
Temple completed 408 BC
3. (62 p.w.) - 434 years
Jesus baptised
27 AC
4. (Half p.w.) - 3.5 years
Jesus crucified
30 AC
5. ( Half p.w.) - 3.5 years
Stoning of Stevan
34 AC
This adds to 70 prophetic weeks.
70x7 is the full measure of forgiveness
Physical children of Abraham had been REPLACED by the spiritual children of Abraham just as the spiritual circumsision of the heart had replaced the physical circumsision.
------
The rapture.
Proverbs 2:21
Righteous shall inherit the land.
Proverbs 10:30
Righteous shall not be moved
See also Psalm 37:9,10
Psalm 115:16
Heaven is for the Lord and earth is given for mankindm
John 17:15
Jesus prays that they will NOT be taken OUT of this world but that they will be delivered from evil
Dan 7:27
Rulership is given to the saints
The earth and the fullness thereof belongs to the Lord.
Romans 8
All creation cries out...manifestation of sons of God
Revelation 2:26-28
We must rule!
He who overcomes, rulership over nations.
Ps 27:27
Will forever dwell...
Mat 5:5
Meek will inherit the earth
Titus 2:13,11
John 14:1-4
2 Cor 5:2
1 John 4:12
1 Thes 4:13-18
Rapture : acts 8:29
He manifests.
Glorified body.
Blood out.
Vains are filled with light not blood.
Presence of God was with them..
To be raptured like Phillip - to be united with Him.
Nobody will take you from my hand (rapture)
See also
Jude 14:15
1 Thes 3:13
Mat 13:24-30
----
Topic 4 : Revelations
This is the Revelation OF JESUS CHRIST ( Rev 1:1)
Written before the book of John.
John didn't write seperate chapters about end time like other gospel writers, for it was already covered in his book Revelation.
Time is close Rev 22:10
Holy Spirit came and told them all they had to hear.
Nero was that AntiChrist
2 Peter 1:3
3: 7-13
Fire?
2 Peter 3
Your way of thinking can also burn.
Gal 4:3-9
Col 2:20
Old earth - old way of thinking.
Has to be destroyed with fire.
Dimension of His glory, Holy of Holies, is a new way of thinking.
Gen 8:21,22,4
Offer with fire.
1st offer in new epog (time dispensation).
Promise made.
Arc, on 7th month on 17th landed on mountain ararat.
It was the same day that Jesus rose from the dead.
And Ararat means "God reversed the curse"
Noah means rest.
my conclusion
Through the experience I had with a cult group and also a family I am friends with that was rescued from an extreme cult group, the definition of a cult is simply this "Jesus plus..."
When anything is added as primary focus...then its a cult.
Jesus plus good works
Jesus plus religious rituals
Jesus plus .....anything....
And it could even be...I see now...
Jesus plus confessions.
Jesus alone is not enough. Childlike trust in Him is not enough. Listening to His voice moment by moment is not enough - you also need this and that discipline to practise in order to be okay....you also need to pray at least hour a day after you wake up...you also need to have this and that covering....you also need to practise diligently the discipline of positive confessions, Jesus alone is not enough, looking at Him is not enough, you need our formulas also..........that would be the kinda lines used...that would remind me of a cult.
Teachings of Christ is good to keep us in Truth yet. Loving Jesus is loving Truth. 2Thes 2:10 "because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion..."
You can't love Jesus and not love Truth for He is the Truth. You can't love Jesus and not love His Word when He sends it.
So its not a matter of Jesus plus Truth, for Jesus is Truth.
But Jesus plus prayer for example, could be witchcraft when prayer and the specific type of prayer as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
And Jesus plus good works, could be witchcraft when good works and the specific type of "good works" as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
And Jesus plus confessions, could be witchcraft when this as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
Back to Christian mysticism. It is about
1. Prayer
2. Disciplines
2. Abstinence.
And if you ever get to read that article about eros spirituality vs agape faith, it shows exactly that.
Cult groups can be extremely spiritual. Angelic visitations and supernatural manifestations being intense. And always but always it is about the intense practice of some or a variety of Christian disciplines. In Christian Science it is about the practice of the discipline of confessions and positive thought in particular.
Jesus IS
The WAY
The TRUTH
And the LIFE
When we experience death in any area of our life, we know Jesus is the Life. In Him is life and only in Him.
Some people realize that, but they don't get it that He is also the way. Now instead of resting in Him and allowing Him to steer the way, whatever it may takes, He may instruct a fast, He may prompt a person to do some confessions and give a particular Word or promise from Scripture for the situation, He may require thanksgiving, He may require just waiting on Him and being still. He IS the way for every situation of death to come to life. And in being the WAY, He is also the TRUTH, where there is lies the light of His Truth will expose it as we lean on Him and Him only.
But now some people have seen how Jesus had instructed them once to worship when they were coming from death to life in a situation or condition. Now they built an altar of worship, and make of the discipline of worship "THE way".
Religion is what's left when God has left the building.
So now the follow the discipline expecting Jesus to come through as He did the first time. They have reduced Him to a formula and independently now want to get Him to do stuff that they want Him to do, instead of laying down all formulas and coming back to Jesus as THE WAY.
For another person when Jesus was The WAY for them in accessing life from a situation of death may have been that Jesus prompted them to do a specific Scriptural confession over and over.
Now they make a formula of THAT and now independantly of Jesus being the WAY they want to "make it happen" based on the method Jesus used last time.
And so it becomes a Jesus PLUS.
And then it has become a religious cult.
And they live from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, of formulas of good and evil and not of HIM.
When people live from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as described below it is about turning everything that is "evil" their view to what is "good" their view by the application of the discipline which they believe is "the WAY".
In Christian Science, a person that is suffering some discomfort of any kind may interpret this as "evil" based on his human understanding. Because he believes God to be "good" (from a humanistic perspective of what is good), he wants to "treat" the situation by using his "formula" of confession.
When Hezekiah got a Word that he would die from his sickness he judged the word as "evil" based on his human understanding (regardless whether it was a Word from God Himself). Because he believes he should only have "good" (from his perspective and mental frame), he needed to "treat" the situation by disciplines of prayer and continuous nagging at God.
Some people use the discipline of fasting, other the discipline of singing to God, other the discipline of doing good deeds, to "cure" situations from "evil" to "good".
But how can the human mind determine what is evil. Still today people think God's instruction to kill all the families of Canaanites was evil - from their humanism perspective. People see any discomfort as evil. Their perception of good is if I roll in the money and I have everything going my way. If I don't, it is "evil" and I want to grab at some "discipline" to "fix" the situation.
Christian mysticism is the same.
Any cult is the same.
More advanced cults try to use the "formulas" not only to "treat" their own conditions but also that of the "greater humanity". That's when you get groups doing mantras with the names of God for example over a war situation to bring peace.
Can't you see how confessions have become a "formula", just another type of "formula" to substitute Jesus as the way, so people can independantly change what they consider "evil" situations to "good".
Confession, worship, good deeds, prayer, meditation of the Word...all those things are wonderful, good, wholesome, when used in HIM, as an outflow of Him being the vine and we the branches and He prompts us to flow in that particular thing. That is all part of living of the Tree of life.
But to take one element and make of that an independent "discipline" that is when we get into witchcraft, into living from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I know I speak Truth to you. I know that.
See also foundationsofchristianity.co.za/Universalism.htm which was the product that flowed after the loose notes jotted below was taken and then it kept expanding. But this I wrote above is my latest conclusion on the matter of Word of Faith movement.
When anything is added as primary focus...then its a cult.
Jesus plus good works
Jesus plus religious rituals
Jesus plus .....anything....
And it could even be...I see now...
Jesus plus confessions.
Jesus alone is not enough. Childlike trust in Him is not enough. Listening to His voice moment by moment is not enough - you also need this and that discipline to practise in order to be okay....you also need to pray at least hour a day after you wake up...you also need to have this and that covering....you also need to practise diligently the discipline of positive confessions, Jesus alone is not enough, looking at Him is not enough, you need our formulas also..........that would be the kinda lines used...that would remind me of a cult.
Teachings of Christ is good to keep us in Truth yet. Loving Jesus is loving Truth. 2Thes 2:10 "because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion..."
You can't love Jesus and not love Truth for He is the Truth. You can't love Jesus and not love His Word when He sends it.
So its not a matter of Jesus plus Truth, for Jesus is Truth.
But Jesus plus prayer for example, could be witchcraft when prayer and the specific type of prayer as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
And Jesus plus good works, could be witchcraft when good works and the specific type of "good works" as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
And Jesus plus confessions, could be witchcraft when this as a discipline becomes the focus and not Jesus.
Back to Christian mysticism. It is about
1. Prayer
2. Disciplines
2. Abstinence.
And if you ever get to read that article about eros spirituality vs agape faith, it shows exactly that.
Cult groups can be extremely spiritual. Angelic visitations and supernatural manifestations being intense. And always but always it is about the intense practice of some or a variety of Christian disciplines. In Christian Science it is about the practice of the discipline of confessions and positive thought in particular.
Jesus IS
The WAY
The TRUTH
And the LIFE
When we experience death in any area of our life, we know Jesus is the Life. In Him is life and only in Him.
Some people realize that, but they don't get it that He is also the way. Now instead of resting in Him and allowing Him to steer the way, whatever it may takes, He may instruct a fast, He may prompt a person to do some confessions and give a particular Word or promise from Scripture for the situation, He may require thanksgiving, He may require just waiting on Him and being still. He IS the way for every situation of death to come to life. And in being the WAY, He is also the TRUTH, where there is lies the light of His Truth will expose it as we lean on Him and Him only.
But now some people have seen how Jesus had instructed them once to worship when they were coming from death to life in a situation or condition. Now they built an altar of worship, and make of the discipline of worship "THE way".
Religion is what's left when God has left the building.
So now the follow the discipline expecting Jesus to come through as He did the first time. They have reduced Him to a formula and independently now want to get Him to do stuff that they want Him to do, instead of laying down all formulas and coming back to Jesus as THE WAY.
For another person when Jesus was The WAY for them in accessing life from a situation of death may have been that Jesus prompted them to do a specific Scriptural confession over and over.
Now they make a formula of THAT and now independantly of Jesus being the WAY they want to "make it happen" based on the method Jesus used last time.
And so it becomes a Jesus PLUS.
And then it has become a religious cult.
And they live from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, of formulas of good and evil and not of HIM.
When people live from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as described below it is about turning everything that is "evil" their view to what is "good" their view by the application of the discipline which they believe is "the WAY".
In Christian Science, a person that is suffering some discomfort of any kind may interpret this as "evil" based on his human understanding. Because he believes God to be "good" (from a humanistic perspective of what is good), he wants to "treat" the situation by using his "formula" of confession.
When Hezekiah got a Word that he would die from his sickness he judged the word as "evil" based on his human understanding (regardless whether it was a Word from God Himself). Because he believes he should only have "good" (from his perspective and mental frame), he needed to "treat" the situation by disciplines of prayer and continuous nagging at God.
Some people use the discipline of fasting, other the discipline of singing to God, other the discipline of doing good deeds, to "cure" situations from "evil" to "good".
But how can the human mind determine what is evil. Still today people think God's instruction to kill all the families of Canaanites was evil - from their humanism perspective. People see any discomfort as evil. Their perception of good is if I roll in the money and I have everything going my way. If I don't, it is "evil" and I want to grab at some "discipline" to "fix" the situation.
Christian mysticism is the same.
Any cult is the same.
More advanced cults try to use the "formulas" not only to "treat" their own conditions but also that of the "greater humanity". That's when you get groups doing mantras with the names of God for example over a war situation to bring peace.
Can't you see how confessions have become a "formula", just another type of "formula" to substitute Jesus as the way, so people can independantly change what they consider "evil" situations to "good".
Confession, worship, good deeds, prayer, meditation of the Word...all those things are wonderful, good, wholesome, when used in HIM, as an outflow of Him being the vine and we the branches and He prompts us to flow in that particular thing. That is all part of living of the Tree of life.
But to take one element and make of that an independent "discipline" that is when we get into witchcraft, into living from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I know I speak Truth to you. I know that.
See also foundationsofchristianity.co.za/Universalism.htm which was the product that flowed after the loose notes jotted below was taken and then it kept expanding. But this I wrote above is my latest conclusion on the matter of Word of Faith movement.
Monday 4 January 2010
The big picture
Since I am so interested in the big picture and the bigger plan, the very first verses Paul spoke after he greeted everybody warmly.
V2 onwards
To put this in my own words:
Grace and peace to us
Blessing and praise to God
God picked us in Christ, put us in Christ, and blessed us with everything possible,
so we could BE a certain way before Him in love.
This state of BEING is holiness, wholeness, blamelessness.
(V5) He wanted us to be this way for He foreordained us to be adopted as His own children, .
(Implying to me, to be His very own children He wanted us to be of His very own kind, therefore he wanted to do whatever it takes, to bring us to this state of being, and part of the process to bring us to this state, was that He blessed us with everything possible, for is not the goodness of God that leads us to repentance?)
so we may be to the praise of His glorious grace
(Implying that he wanted us to be his very own children, for the ultimate purpose of it being to the praise of His glorious grace)
(V6) We are thus redeemed to this original purpose through the blood.
in accordance with this generous glorious grace.
(10) And God planned for the maturity of the times,
the climax of the ages,
to unify all things
and head them up in Christ
(all things in heaven and on the earth)
(Implying, that is what this plan is ultimately working towards)
-------
Thus
The purpose of it all is for the praise of His glorious grace
The ultimate result at the climax of the ages will be all unified in Christ in heaven and earth
In the meanwhile He has foreordained sons that will play an important role in this bringing all into alignment.
These sons are to BE before Him in love in a certain state of BEING
This transformation of BEING who we are meant to be is made possible through the blood,
But is brought about by the receiving of all the blessings that had been released to us in the spiritual realm (by faith).
The result of the transformation of BEING, is that we will be totally holy and blameless before God, as his very own sons, in the image of our Father. (Implying wholeness in every part of us, and being seperated unto Him completely).
Therefore it is VERY important that we understand what these blessings are that had been released to us and how to receive them, for they will result in the transformation of BEING once we receive His gracious gifts. For even the more we receive, the more His glorious grace is being glorified. And that is after all, the purpose of it all.
That is how I see the big picture.
Reply:
V2 onwards
To put this in my own words:
Grace and peace to us
Blessing and praise to God
God picked us in Christ, put us in Christ, and blessed us with everything possible,
so we could BE a certain way before Him in love.
This state of BEING is holiness, wholeness, blamelessness.
(V5) He wanted us to be this way for He foreordained us to be adopted as His own children, .
(Implying to me, to be His very own children He wanted us to be of His very own kind, therefore he wanted to do whatever it takes, to bring us to this state of being, and part of the process to bring us to this state, was that He blessed us with everything possible, for is not the goodness of God that leads us to repentance?)
so we may be to the praise of His glorious grace
(Implying that he wanted us to be his very own children, for the ultimate purpose of it being to the praise of His glorious grace)
(V6) We are thus redeemed to this original purpose through the blood.
in accordance with this generous glorious grace.
(10) And God planned for the maturity of the times,
the climax of the ages,
to unify all things
and head them up in Christ
(all things in heaven and on the earth)
(Implying, that is what this plan is ultimately working towards)
-------
Thus
The purpose of it all is for the praise of His glorious grace
The ultimate result at the climax of the ages will be all unified in Christ in heaven and earth
In the meanwhile He has foreordained sons that will play an important role in this bringing all into alignment.
These sons are to BE before Him in love in a certain state of BEING
This transformation of BEING who we are meant to be is made possible through the blood,
But is brought about by the receiving of all the blessings that had been released to us in the spiritual realm (by faith).
The result of the transformation of BEING, is that we will be totally holy and blameless before God, as his very own sons, in the image of our Father. (Implying wholeness in every part of us, and being seperated unto Him completely).
Therefore it is VERY important that we understand what these blessings are that had been released to us and how to receive them, for they will result in the transformation of BEING once we receive His gracious gifts. For even the more we receive, the more His glorious grace is being glorified. And that is after all, the purpose of it all.
That is how I see the big picture.
Reply:
Sunday 3 January 2010
Summary of the Gospel
Question:
How would you summarize the message of the bible in one page, that could bring it all together as a whole?
Reply:
1John 3:14-24
Reply back:
Do you consider this the summary of the Gospel?
What about Eph 2:8-10?
Reply:
ou asked about a summary of the entire Bible. If I were to put up something approximating what the Jews put on their doors with a piece of Scripture in it, I'd use 1John 3:14-24 rather than the traditional passage from the Torah. If I had to summarize the entire Bible even more briefly, I'd use Colossians 3:12-17. I don't know of a right or wrong answer to your question. It's just how I'd do it. ---
Reply back:
This is what is so baffling to me....
My heart is so drawn to love...I am filled with love and compassion....and that is probably the main reason I got drawn into new age many many years ago, because I just couldn't understand how the God I love could send people for all eternity to a tormenting hell, for not understanding that they have to do a sinners prayer and trying to find and reach Him in other ways.
God then pulled me out of there before I got in too deep.
But then with this Jakob Lorber, it was the love again that got me in. All the books is centred around the theme of love. Of doing the works of Jesus. Of loving.
This Jakob Lorber was believed to be a prophet, speaking the words of Jesus, he was speaking in the first person, as if Jesus is speaking, explaining scriptures and giving details, many details about the book of John.
And it was from a Universalism perspective.
It had teachings about love so detailed as I have never heard anywhere, and about laying down ones life. And the spiritual content was so high.
That was why it was so appealing to me.
But in the end, Jesus showed me, that the foundations is wrong, the starting point is wrong and that it is not His books. (Nor words)
And then brought me back to grace and truth. Grace through faith.
For those people believe in Jesus. They believe the Jesus from Lorber is the same Jesus from the bible. Lorber even explains the crucifixion later....so they don't deny it. Only problem is they focus on love rather than on the cross. And they do strive to keep His words and to love with every fibre in their being.
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/05/eros_spirituality_vs_agape_fai.php
This article hits the nail on the head I think with regards to the type of love the scripture demands vs the type of love preached by these new spiritualities, and deceiving spirits.
And that makes me want just to run deeper into grace. More grace. I cannot even love if He doesn't help me and do it through me.
R
How would you summarize the message of the bible in one page, that could bring it all together as a whole?
Reply:
1John 3:14-24
Reply back:
Do you consider this the summary of the Gospel?
What about Eph 2:8-10?
Reply:
ou asked about a summary of the entire Bible. If I were to put up something approximating what the Jews put on their doors with a piece of Scripture in it, I'd use 1John 3:14-24 rather than the traditional passage from the Torah. If I had to summarize the entire Bible even more briefly, I'd use Colossians 3:12-17. I don't know of a right or wrong answer to your question. It's just how I'd do it. ---
Reply back:
This is what is so baffling to me....
My heart is so drawn to love...I am filled with love and compassion....and that is probably the main reason I got drawn into new age many many years ago, because I just couldn't understand how the God I love could send people for all eternity to a tormenting hell, for not understanding that they have to do a sinners prayer and trying to find and reach Him in other ways.
God then pulled me out of there before I got in too deep.
But then with this Jakob Lorber, it was the love again that got me in. All the books is centred around the theme of love. Of doing the works of Jesus. Of loving.
This Jakob Lorber was believed to be a prophet, speaking the words of Jesus, he was speaking in the first person, as if Jesus is speaking, explaining scriptures and giving details, many details about the book of John.
And it was from a Universalism perspective.
It had teachings about love so detailed as I have never heard anywhere, and about laying down ones life. And the spiritual content was so high.
That was why it was so appealing to me.
But in the end, Jesus showed me, that the foundations is wrong, the starting point is wrong and that it is not His books. (Nor words)
And then brought me back to grace and truth. Grace through faith.
For those people believe in Jesus. They believe the Jesus from Lorber is the same Jesus from the bible. Lorber even explains the crucifixion later....so they don't deny it. Only problem is they focus on love rather than on the cross. And they do strive to keep His words and to love with every fibre in their being.
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/05/eros_spirituality_vs_agape_fai.php
This article hits the nail on the head I think with regards to the type of love the scripture demands vs the type of love preached by these new spiritualities, and deceiving spirits.
And that makes me want just to run deeper into grace. More grace. I cannot even love if He doesn't help me and do it through me.
R
Immortality
Question:
I'm becoming increasingly persuaded that our immortality and our reign a thousand years has been available for 2,000yrs if we'd pursued the Word of Faith that firmly. Now, whether it's absolutely always been available or whether the Word's leaning towards disclosing more and more along those lines towards me BECAUSE it's His timing, I couldn't even begin to tell you. I believe a New Testament person's lifespan has potentially always been a thousand years, but with the big emphasis upon martyrdom and all of the religious stuff that arose about heaven, it's not too hard to connect the dots on why either nobody in previous generations has ever entered into that, or because of persecution and avoiding publicity about it, they've simply kept a lid on it. As far as partial preterism, or the idea that many of these prophesied events met their fulfillment in 70AD, in the years leading up to that, or within a century or two of that, I'm very acquainted with that view and do believe many New Testament passages have their fulfillment in that. I'm tempted to believe the whole book of Revelation may perhaps have been fulfilled in the 1st century and that we need to look to 2Peter, the book of Zechariah, Hosea, and other passages of Scripture for what's yet to come to pass, but I'm still rethinking the book of Revelation and am not dogmatic about that yet without typing up a few more loose ends either for or against that view. As far as the letters that begin the book of Revelation, I don't believe they necessarily reflect an overview of Church history to the time of the end because none of 'em reflect a fully matured Ephesians 4 Church. To me, they're like the book of Acts or the issues dealt with in 1Corinthians to where it having fulfillment doesn't mean it's irrelevant to Christian doctrine. None of those letters that begin Revelation show us a Romans 8 "manifestation of the sons of God" chapter of human history that we know from too many other things in the Scriptures must yet happen.
I'm becoming increasingly persuaded that our immortality and our reign a thousand years has been available for 2,000yrs if we'd pursued the Word of Faith that firmly. Now, whether it's absolutely always been available or whether the Word's leaning towards disclosing more and more along those lines towards me BECAUSE it's His timing, I couldn't even begin to tell you. I believe a New Testament person's lifespan has potentially always been a thousand years, but with the big emphasis upon martyrdom and all of the religious stuff that arose about heaven, it's not too hard to connect the dots on why either nobody in previous generations has ever entered into that, or because of persecution and avoiding publicity about it, they've simply kept a lid on it. As far as partial preterism, or the idea that many of these prophesied events met their fulfillment in 70AD, in the years leading up to that, or within a century or two of that, I'm very acquainted with that view and do believe many New Testament passages have their fulfillment in that. I'm tempted to believe the whole book of Revelation may perhaps have been fulfilled in the 1st century and that we need to look to 2Peter, the book of Zechariah, Hosea, and other passages of Scripture for what's yet to come to pass, but I'm still rethinking the book of Revelation and am not dogmatic about that yet without typing up a few more loose ends either for or against that view. As far as the letters that begin the book of Revelation, I don't believe they necessarily reflect an overview of Church history to the time of the end because none of 'em reflect a fully matured Ephesians 4 Church. To me, they're like the book of Acts or the issues dealt with in 1Corinthians to where it having fulfillment doesn't mean it's irrelevant to Christian doctrine. None of those letters that begin Revelation show us a Romans 8 "manifestation of the sons of God" chapter of human history that we know from too many other things in the Scriptures must yet happen.
The cloud of witnesses - flowing later into questions about "the Word"
Question:
There seems to be some interesting teaching going on lately about the cloud of witnesses.Some testify encounters with people from the cloud, and many just talk about an awareness of the cloud that is constantly around us.Some preach that one don't go to heaven when you die, but you go to be with the cloud, which is in the heavenlies, yet all around us.Do you have more insight about this?
Answer:
I've got a lot of experience with the cloud of His glory, but had never thought before I saw this email from you that it's perhaps the same cloud as the cloud of witnesses mentioned in Hebrews. I genuinely have no idea, yet, about what you're asking me, nor any opinion about it one way or the other. Something for me to think about, though, that when that cloud's present in various charismatic services, perhaps it's an agreement between earth and heaven going on where they're standing in agreement with us for His redemptive will to be carried out and from the testimony of those two witnesses, those that are still corporeal and those in that cloud, then Father brings to pass extra special things in the behalf of that agreement, perhaps. Uncertain. Just something, whether intentional or unintentional in this email of yours gave me a whole new area to think through in the Scriptures for what the Scriptures have to say about it. As far as the location of heaven, I wouldn't necessarily go that far, unless there's a Scripture that I run across that ties it together as either the location of the departed or the portal to where they're at.
Reply:
Jesus sais in the book of John while speaking to Nicodemus that nobody has ascended to heaven, except Himself, who came down from heaven.
Where was Elijah then?
That's where the conclusion that he is in the cloud.
Reply back:
Elijah was in heaven. Lord Jesus at that time was the only one that had been transfigured. It was talking about the being caught up to heaven that He experienced when He received honor and glory from Father in His transfiguration according to the 4th account of the transfiguration in the New Testament. He was citing His authority over the Rabbis. John's writings are a bit different from some of the rest of the New Testament. He makes not having seen God a bad thing in 3John 11 and elsewhere, but then speaks it matter of factly about those he's speaking to elsewhere that none of them had ever seen God in 1John 4:12. This is some of the tricky language of the New Testament where you wind up having to really dig for what He's talking about and about seeing Him in the Written Word and through the life that the Written Word has been "imprinted upon."
Reply:
Elijah was in heaven. Lord Jesus at that time was the only one that had been transfigured. It was talking about the being caught up to heaven that He experienced when He received honor and glory from Father in His transfiguration according to the 4th account of the transfiguration in the New Testament. He was citing His authority over the Rabbis. John's writings are a bit different from some of the rest of the New Testament. He makes not having seen God a bad thing in 3John 11 and elsewhere, but then speaks it matter of factly about those he's speaking to elsewhere that none of them had ever seen God in 1John 4:12. This is some of the tricky language of the New Testament where you wind up having to really dig for what He's talking about and about seeing Him in the Written Word and through the life that the Written Word has been "imprinted upon."
Reply back:
Why is there such tricky things in the New Testament.
If God wants to make Himself known to us, as He wants us to have eternal life, why not make it easier on us to understand His heart, His Word and to see Him and hear Him?
Reply:
The epistles of the New Testament were essentially follow-up letters to congregations that had already been established and who had already heard hours and hours of teaching and preaching along those lines, so since we weren't there for the weeks, months, and in a few cases years of discipleship straight from the Apostles, then we're sorta having to prayerfully work through both testaments to put back together what was being said by the Apostles in the New Testament. They didn't know, initially, that they were writing the New Testament. These were ministry letters being sent out, sometimes from jail so that the availability of writing materials may have additionally lent to a type of understood short hand where you'd need the rest of the New Testament and what Lord Jesus taught to put it all together.
Reply back:
But surely all Scriptures are given by God and are precisely the way they should be? So surely we can't put the blame on them or the circumstances for being vague at places?
Also, when talking about the Written Word : is there more authority in the words of the bible than in a personal Word God gives you
And when you are filled with the Spirit and the Word, aren't you then the Word becoming flesh, and how does that differ when I then meditate upon what you write me vs meditating on bible scripture?
Reply:
That's true, but 2Corinthians 13 and 1John 4 and other passages of Scripture indicate that there are tests you can give any spirit that's supposedly speaking to someone 'cause the Bible warns that there are many spirits out there saying stuff, not just the Spirit of God. The Bible says in the book of Acts that the Bereans were the absolute best crowd that St. Paul ever preached to. They didn't believe a thing he said at face value without searching the Scriptures DAILY to see if what he said was true.
.
Reply:
There seems to be some interesting teaching going on lately about the cloud of witnesses.Some testify encounters with people from the cloud, and many just talk about an awareness of the cloud that is constantly around us.Some preach that one don't go to heaven when you die, but you go to be with the cloud, which is in the heavenlies, yet all around us.Do you have more insight about this?
Answer:
I've got a lot of experience with the cloud of His glory, but had never thought before I saw this email from you that it's perhaps the same cloud as the cloud of witnesses mentioned in Hebrews. I genuinely have no idea, yet, about what you're asking me, nor any opinion about it one way or the other. Something for me to think about, though, that when that cloud's present in various charismatic services, perhaps it's an agreement between earth and heaven going on where they're standing in agreement with us for His redemptive will to be carried out and from the testimony of those two witnesses, those that are still corporeal and those in that cloud, then Father brings to pass extra special things in the behalf of that agreement, perhaps. Uncertain. Just something, whether intentional or unintentional in this email of yours gave me a whole new area to think through in the Scriptures for what the Scriptures have to say about it. As far as the location of heaven, I wouldn't necessarily go that far, unless there's a Scripture that I run across that ties it together as either the location of the departed or the portal to where they're at.
Reply:
Jesus sais in the book of John while speaking to Nicodemus that nobody has ascended to heaven, except Himself, who came down from heaven.
Where was Elijah then?
That's where the conclusion that he is in the cloud.
Reply back:
Elijah was in heaven. Lord Jesus at that time was the only one that had been transfigured. It was talking about the being caught up to heaven that He experienced when He received honor and glory from Father in His transfiguration according to the 4th account of the transfiguration in the New Testament. He was citing His authority over the Rabbis. John's writings are a bit different from some of the rest of the New Testament. He makes not having seen God a bad thing in 3John 11 and elsewhere, but then speaks it matter of factly about those he's speaking to elsewhere that none of them had ever seen God in 1John 4:12. This is some of the tricky language of the New Testament where you wind up having to really dig for what He's talking about and about seeing Him in the Written Word and through the life that the Written Word has been "imprinted upon."
Reply:
Elijah was in heaven. Lord Jesus at that time was the only one that had been transfigured. It was talking about the being caught up to heaven that He experienced when He received honor and glory from Father in His transfiguration according to the 4th account of the transfiguration in the New Testament. He was citing His authority over the Rabbis. John's writings are a bit different from some of the rest of the New Testament. He makes not having seen God a bad thing in 3John 11 and elsewhere, but then speaks it matter of factly about those he's speaking to elsewhere that none of them had ever seen God in 1John 4:12. This is some of the tricky language of the New Testament where you wind up having to really dig for what He's talking about and about seeing Him in the Written Word and through the life that the Written Word has been "imprinted upon."
Reply back:
Why is there such tricky things in the New Testament.
If God wants to make Himself known to us, as He wants us to have eternal life, why not make it easier on us to understand His heart, His Word and to see Him and hear Him?
Reply:
The epistles of the New Testament were essentially follow-up letters to congregations that had already been established and who had already heard hours and hours of teaching and preaching along those lines, so since we weren't there for the weeks, months, and in a few cases years of discipleship straight from the Apostles, then we're sorta having to prayerfully work through both testaments to put back together what was being said by the Apostles in the New Testament. They didn't know, initially, that they were writing the New Testament. These were ministry letters being sent out, sometimes from jail so that the availability of writing materials may have additionally lent to a type of understood short hand where you'd need the rest of the New Testament and what Lord Jesus taught to put it all together.
Reply back:
But surely all Scriptures are given by God and are precisely the way they should be? So surely we can't put the blame on them or the circumstances for being vague at places?
Also, when talking about the Written Word : is there more authority in the words of the bible than in a personal Word God gives you
And when you are filled with the Spirit and the Word, aren't you then the Word becoming flesh, and how does that differ when I then meditate upon what you write me vs meditating on bible scripture?
Reply:
That's true, but 2Corinthians 13 and 1John 4 and other passages of Scripture indicate that there are tests you can give any spirit that's supposedly speaking to someone 'cause the Bible warns that there are many spirits out there saying stuff, not just the Spirit of God. The Bible says in the book of Acts that the Bereans were the absolute best crowd that St. Paul ever preached to. They didn't believe a thing he said at face value without searching the Scriptures DAILY to see if what he said was true.
.
Reply:
Question on the destruction of the wicked and also the scoffers in 2 Peter 3
The issue of Him coming WITH His saints as it says in 1Thessalonians 3:13 and Creation's groan in Romans 8 for our manifestation rather than His, and Him coming riding the tribe of Judah as His horse in battle, as I believe Zechariah 10:3 says -- that's a separate and distinct issue from the punishment of the ungodly through the proclamation of the Gospel, their reaping what they've sown if we've walked in His character in 1Peter chapters 2 through 5, and the restoration of all of the nations to God through Christ Jesus via the outpouring of Holy Spirit when they've entered into the valley of Decision in Joel chapter 2. Salvation through the Cross and the Gospel isn't the same issue as the transformation of the world within world history in 2Peter 3, and the scoffing that 2Peter 3 talks about is the scoffing that anything will get better and then it brings up Noah as an antitype that as things did come to a generation that went down the toilet with God's flush thousands of years ago, there will come a critical "omega point" generation when all things will be transformed, in the heavens will dwell righteousness exclusively, etc. An all things continue as they have since the beginning is talking about things only going from bad to good to bad in cycles, but nothing ever permanently changing, but as catastrophic as sin got in Noah's day, the righteousness that surpasses the fall in Romans 5 must have a much, much more powerful transformative effect upon the present heavens and earth 'til nothing but righteousness ultimately dwells in them. If anything, 2Peter 3 is a direct challenge against reincarnation doctrines rather than anything about whether or not all things and all beings will be restored and will sing the chorus of the redeemed in Revelation 5:13.
On Charasmatic witchcraft
Question:
in the training that the Lord had taken me through, I realised just how very much Charismatic witchcraft there had been going on.
People walking around with a "name claim frame" mentality, decreeing things that the Father is not decreeing, speaking and claiming things, which is not in the Fathers plan for now.
Because we Christians equals "God is good" means every lonely single needs to be married now, and every sick person needs to be healed right now, and every poor person needs to receive money right now, without a sensitivity to where the Spirit is right now in that persons life, we end up working then often against the Father and his immediate purposes with a person rather than with Him. Not saying healing isn't available for believers nor that he wants to meet our needs. But it is often not when we want it and as Joseph's story, Abraham's story and even Samuel's mothers story testifies, God's timing is perfect, and sometimes God makes us wait painfully long for release and that is not because He is unkind or unloving, but because His wisdom sees more and has eternal purposes in mind.
So that makes me so hesitant even to pray. I don't want to pray soulish prayers for people. It is like witchcraft when we start pushing in the soul for things to happen, which is not birthed from the Spirit.
We need so much help. We can't please God in any other way but by the Holy Spirit. And all the many 10 steps to this and 7 steps to that formulas we have learned in churches is often no more than philosophy, motivational speeches or even Charismatic witchcraft even where we arm wrestle with God, and it really is our soul that wants its own demands met, how loving and noble even it may seem.
Everytime I get back to dependence.
Everytime I get back to the fact that we can do absolutely nothing without Him.
That we are like the lame. We are not able to contribute. We can only yield. And God will get all the glory. This is part of the purification that needs to come in the church today. All self-reliance and independence programs needs to be stripped away.
Do you share this view?
Answer:
There's a timing to when God will finally step it in and do it Himself because He can't find His image in the earth willing to do it themselves, but we are His righteousness and there's no point in the righteousness unless we are His righteousness and reign with Him a thousand years. I can't find anything in the Word about pleasing Him through Holy Spirit from cover to cover. That comes closer to Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist ideas of conformity to breathing and their whole system related to the Force or whatever. If there isn't reliance upon the Written Word for each and every thing, then there is zero yeilded to Him. The moment we stop relying upon the Written Word, we've stopped relying upon Him. Witchcraft is any prayer without the Word for someone that's supposed to be a disciple. Yes, the heathen can cry out for mercy and obtain it without their stack of Scriptures, but our lives aren't to be lived like the thieves that died on the Cross beside Him with one of them entering into Paradise because he asked and the other one entering into Paradise because he said that if He was Christ, then He'd save Himself and them. Just because one of them accused the other one of not fearing God, doesn't mean there was something there that Christ didn't hear and answer with mercy. And just because someone doesn't always understand how a stand of faith relates to receiving His wisdom and His further spoken promises about the situation when the Written Word has come to harvest on the general promises of the Word in one's heart -- doesn't mean there's Charismatic witchcraft going on. That's genuinely rare in the Body of Christ on the part of anyone that's not an accuser of that. God only gets the glory when it's according to His system, His Kingdom system, and Lord Jesus isn't going to step out of God's will to meet your need or mine or anybody else's. It's all going to be according to the Written Word. He's sinning against Father for nobody! Self reliance and independence programs are anything that's not based firmly on the rock of the Written Word in a context where you're talking about disciples that should know better.
Reply question:
Well, people can easily justify what they want to do based on the written Word, for there are many scriptures to be "picked" on based on what it is what an individual wants to do or to justify.
Paul didn't use prayer for all sickness, once he prescribed some wine.
If one is not yielded to the Spirit and cherry pick the verses you want to use, you can easily appear to be rock solid based on the Word for everything you do.
Wouldn't you agree?
Reply answer:
Perhaps if someone isn't feeding on the Word but is only dealing in scripture quotation from memory, then from memory rather than fresh feeding on it, perhaps all kinds of things can come into that from their own vain imaginations. It just comes down to how submitted they are to Him, and for many people, that degree of being yielded to all of the Scriptures will vary in intensity throughout their lives, if they've never spent quality time totally emmersed in it. I like taking a book of the Bible, particularly the New Testament, and reading it over and over again aloud and doing that 'til there's an experience with His Spirit, no matter how many hours are involved. That way, mind's renewed, heart is yielded to Holy Spirit, tongue's crucified, subconscious has the tools to bipass any traditions one may currently have zero basis for knowing are in error or incomplete in understanding, etc., and additionally, spiritual realities can be created with the balance of His wisdom in the context in which they were given so that you're not just quoting an isolated verse, but are calling forth His intended ends and receiving any correction along the way so you get to keep it rather than get in a situation of bungling it.
in the training that the Lord had taken me through, I realised just how very much Charismatic witchcraft there had been going on.
People walking around with a "name claim frame" mentality, decreeing things that the Father is not decreeing, speaking and claiming things, which is not in the Fathers plan for now.
Because we Christians equals "God is good" means every lonely single needs to be married now, and every sick person needs to be healed right now, and every poor person needs to receive money right now, without a sensitivity to where the Spirit is right now in that persons life, we end up working then often against the Father and his immediate purposes with a person rather than with Him. Not saying healing isn't available for believers nor that he wants to meet our needs. But it is often not when we want it and as Joseph's story, Abraham's story and even Samuel's mothers story testifies, God's timing is perfect, and sometimes God makes us wait painfully long for release and that is not because He is unkind or unloving, but because His wisdom sees more and has eternal purposes in mind.
So that makes me so hesitant even to pray. I don't want to pray soulish prayers for people. It is like witchcraft when we start pushing in the soul for things to happen, which is not birthed from the Spirit.
We need so much help. We can't please God in any other way but by the Holy Spirit. And all the many 10 steps to this and 7 steps to that formulas we have learned in churches is often no more than philosophy, motivational speeches or even Charismatic witchcraft even where we arm wrestle with God, and it really is our soul that wants its own demands met, how loving and noble even it may seem.
Everytime I get back to dependence.
Everytime I get back to the fact that we can do absolutely nothing without Him.
That we are like the lame. We are not able to contribute. We can only yield. And God will get all the glory. This is part of the purification that needs to come in the church today. All self-reliance and independence programs needs to be stripped away.
Do you share this view?
Answer:
There's a timing to when God will finally step it in and do it Himself because He can't find His image in the earth willing to do it themselves, but we are His righteousness and there's no point in the righteousness unless we are His righteousness and reign with Him a thousand years. I can't find anything in the Word about pleasing Him through Holy Spirit from cover to cover. That comes closer to Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist ideas of conformity to breathing and their whole system related to the Force or whatever. If there isn't reliance upon the Written Word for each and every thing, then there is zero yeilded to Him. The moment we stop relying upon the Written Word, we've stopped relying upon Him. Witchcraft is any prayer without the Word for someone that's supposed to be a disciple. Yes, the heathen can cry out for mercy and obtain it without their stack of Scriptures, but our lives aren't to be lived like the thieves that died on the Cross beside Him with one of them entering into Paradise because he asked and the other one entering into Paradise because he said that if He was Christ, then He'd save Himself and them. Just because one of them accused the other one of not fearing God, doesn't mean there was something there that Christ didn't hear and answer with mercy. And just because someone doesn't always understand how a stand of faith relates to receiving His wisdom and His further spoken promises about the situation when the Written Word has come to harvest on the general promises of the Word in one's heart -- doesn't mean there's Charismatic witchcraft going on. That's genuinely rare in the Body of Christ on the part of anyone that's not an accuser of that. God only gets the glory when it's according to His system, His Kingdom system, and Lord Jesus isn't going to step out of God's will to meet your need or mine or anybody else's. It's all going to be according to the Written Word. He's sinning against Father for nobody! Self reliance and independence programs are anything that's not based firmly on the rock of the Written Word in a context where you're talking about disciples that should know better.
Reply question:
Well, people can easily justify what they want to do based on the written Word, for there are many scriptures to be "picked" on based on what it is what an individual wants to do or to justify.
Paul didn't use prayer for all sickness, once he prescribed some wine.
If one is not yielded to the Spirit and cherry pick the verses you want to use, you can easily appear to be rock solid based on the Word for everything you do.
Wouldn't you agree?
Reply answer:
Perhaps if someone isn't feeding on the Word but is only dealing in scripture quotation from memory, then from memory rather than fresh feeding on it, perhaps all kinds of things can come into that from their own vain imaginations. It just comes down to how submitted they are to Him, and for many people, that degree of being yielded to all of the Scriptures will vary in intensity throughout their lives, if they've never spent quality time totally emmersed in it. I like taking a book of the Bible, particularly the New Testament, and reading it over and over again aloud and doing that 'til there's an experience with His Spirit, no matter how many hours are involved. That way, mind's renewed, heart is yielded to Holy Spirit, tongue's crucified, subconscious has the tools to bipass any traditions one may currently have zero basis for knowing are in error or incomplete in understanding, etc., and additionally, spiritual realities can be created with the balance of His wisdom in the context in which they were given so that you're not just quoting an isolated verse, but are calling forth His intended ends and receiving any correction along the way so you get to keep it rather than get in a situation of bungling it.
Glory realm experiences
Question asked:
What other things are you aware of that is part of the redemption available in Christ that most Christians are not aware of?I have heard of phenomenal things. Do you know Jason Westerfield? His testimonies are amazing. So also Ana Mendez Farell, who even went to heaven to the room where languages are kept to receive english for her ministry. There is also a whole list of others I got to know about and even met some who operate from the throne room with testimonies that is so "wow"!!!!!!!!!!That is operating in the glory realm, the holy of holies, from the Throne room, where we are supposed to live 24/7.There are Christians these days that even walk through walls like Jesus did, some gets transported like Phillip, and many is so much in the third heaven with supernatural encounters like St. Paul that it has become part of normal living.There are those who shows gemstones they received from heaven. This church is one example http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY_qb2OApNMw&v=Y_qb2OApNMw&gl=GBThere are supernatural money multiplication, supernatural weight-loss, supernatural gold dust, feathers, etc.Some churches experience wind. Some oil.Why would God give some of this at some places, and at other places where people are also desperately hungry for Him he decides not to...I don't quite understand why...or what is blocking it some places...perhaps its sin...perhaps its impurities that blocks God's move...perhaps its inpurities that blocks me, that is maybe why fasting is so necessary, but why is the blood of Jesus not enough? Or perhaps it is faith in the blood of Jesus that is required, and fasting increases faith. But why can't faith then just be received as a grace gift also...and how does the choices of man and the Sovereignty of God work together here?
Answer:
I've seen quite a few of those things and experienced quite a few of 'em this past year, actually, and wilder things, but for me, it's not about those things and I'm personally impressed by absolutely none of those things. All of those things simply come with the package of growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Putting the Written Word first place in one's life in each area of one's anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, social life, ministry and having everything subject to the Word rather than trying to subject the Word to experience -- we should never try to relate the Word to experience 'cause that'll always distort our knowledge of the truth and will give rise to all of these false suffering doctrines -- every experience must be forced to conform to the Written Word. The sensationalistic stuff doesn't matter. None of that matters. It's all garbage that does nothing for the edification of the spirit or the renewal of the mind. Those are spiritual manifestations that should be revealing what was going on behind closed doors with the Written Word and our Father who sees in secret is rewarding us openly. Signs and wonders are for unbelievers. The Written Word is for believers to do in their personal lives much more than the signs and wonders.
Reply:
Please clarify false suffering doctrine
Answer:
Our sufferings to enter into the Kingdom are in our becoming conformed to His will; to become conformed to His every thought and way -- not sickness, disease, hard times, poverty, etc. The only suffering that brings the glory is to become a participant in the divine nature. Our suffering is all of the spiritual persecution that we endure to be conformed to His every promise. Our suffering is the very velocity that I talked about experiencing a few emails ago, that makes one question all of one's logic in submitting when there are easier, quicker ways to quite a few things in this life. But then it's the burden of trying to convince Him to bless in one's life what He never intended for one's life in terms of one's job choice, the house He never intended for one to have -- when He likely had bigger in mind, but in His timing and where He had in mind -- or in terms of the marriage that was based upon a roll in the hay, a pregnancy, emotional codependence rather than growth in His Spirit and purposes, etc. The suffering is that it'll all come by the Written Word or I won't allow it in my life!! Now, that's suffering, and that's where God gets the glory when "there she is;-)" It's called building on the rock in Matthew and Luke's Gospel and Luke's Gospel will add the phrase from Christ Jesus that you're digging deep to have that foundation that'll weather any storms that try to come along. Suffering because of one's former disobedience or for one's own will or whatever -- God gets nothing out of that and that doesn't lead to further and further entrance into the Kingdom.
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What other things are you aware of that is part of the redemption available in Christ that most Christians are not aware of?I have heard of phenomenal things. Do you know Jason Westerfield? His testimonies are amazing. So also Ana Mendez Farell, who even went to heaven to the room where languages are kept to receive english for her ministry. There is also a whole list of others I got to know about and even met some who operate from the throne room with testimonies that is so "wow"!!!!!!!!!!That is operating in the glory realm, the holy of holies, from the Throne room, where we are supposed to live 24/7.There are Christians these days that even walk through walls like Jesus did, some gets transported like Phillip, and many is so much in the third heaven with supernatural encounters like St. Paul that it has become part of normal living.There are those who shows gemstones they received from heaven. This church is one example http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY_qb2OApNMw&v=Y_qb2OApNMw&gl=GBThere are supernatural money multiplication, supernatural weight-loss, supernatural gold dust, feathers, etc.Some churches experience wind. Some oil.Why would God give some of this at some places, and at other places where people are also desperately hungry for Him he decides not to...I don't quite understand why...or what is blocking it some places...perhaps its sin...perhaps its impurities that blocks God's move...perhaps its inpurities that blocks me, that is maybe why fasting is so necessary, but why is the blood of Jesus not enough? Or perhaps it is faith in the blood of Jesus that is required, and fasting increases faith. But why can't faith then just be received as a grace gift also...and how does the choices of man and the Sovereignty of God work together here?
Answer:
I've seen quite a few of those things and experienced quite a few of 'em this past year, actually, and wilder things, but for me, it's not about those things and I'm personally impressed by absolutely none of those things. All of those things simply come with the package of growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Putting the Written Word first place in one's life in each area of one's anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, social life, ministry and having everything subject to the Word rather than trying to subject the Word to experience -- we should never try to relate the Word to experience 'cause that'll always distort our knowledge of the truth and will give rise to all of these false suffering doctrines -- every experience must be forced to conform to the Written Word. The sensationalistic stuff doesn't matter. None of that matters. It's all garbage that does nothing for the edification of the spirit or the renewal of the mind. Those are spiritual manifestations that should be revealing what was going on behind closed doors with the Written Word and our Father who sees in secret is rewarding us openly. Signs and wonders are for unbelievers. The Written Word is for believers to do in their personal lives much more than the signs and wonders.
Reply:
Please clarify false suffering doctrine
Answer:
Our sufferings to enter into the Kingdom are in our becoming conformed to His will; to become conformed to His every thought and way -- not sickness, disease, hard times, poverty, etc. The only suffering that brings the glory is to become a participant in the divine nature. Our suffering is all of the spiritual persecution that we endure to be conformed to His every promise. Our suffering is the very velocity that I talked about experiencing a few emails ago, that makes one question all of one's logic in submitting when there are easier, quicker ways to quite a few things in this life. But then it's the burden of trying to convince Him to bless in one's life what He never intended for one's life in terms of one's job choice, the house He never intended for one to have -- when He likely had bigger in mind, but in His timing and where He had in mind -- or in terms of the marriage that was based upon a roll in the hay, a pregnancy, emotional codependence rather than growth in His Spirit and purposes, etc. The suffering is that it'll all come by the Written Word or I won't allow it in my life!! Now, that's suffering, and that's where God gets the glory when "there she is;-)" It's called building on the rock in Matthew and Luke's Gospel and Luke's Gospel will add the phrase from Christ Jesus that you're digging deep to have that foundation that'll weather any storms that try to come along. Suffering because of one's former disobedience or for one's own will or whatever -- God gets nothing out of that and that doesn't lead to further and further entrance into the Kingdom.
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about hearing God
It's a process of growth in thanksgiving and in the Word according to Colossians 2:6-7 and Colossians 3:16-17 until between the thanksgiving, the time in the Word, and avoiding all offense then fear is cast out, and when the fear is gone, then hearing Him comes increasingly easier. Obviously protecting one's conscience and Isaiah 58 and 2Timothy 2 say that you've got to avoid strife. Worship and growth in the persuasion that God loves you are of paramount importance. So many people, I think, become fully persuaded about the Universal Restoration and they lose themselves as a tree in the forest and are more preoccupied with God's love for everyone else to where they lose sight of that Cross and Resurrection having been for themselves. Very likely this frustration you've expressed in wanting more of Him is what's reflected in St. Paul's cries to not fall short, wanting to press on further, to know Him and the power of His resurrection -- not just the power of His resurrection, but to know Him, etc. It's a process that I don't even have totally figured out yet. All I know is what Isaiah 58, Psalm 91, John 10, and other related passages say regarding the fact that He will speak to each of us. The fact that few experience the dimension -- consistently -- of His ongoing communications, to me at least, indicates "perhaps it does take all of that" that you hear some teach about how to hear from Him regularly. But, likely has more to do with our own ears than regarding His compassions towards each of us that are ever-increasing every single day
Priorities
Your two priorities in life are very very easy: knowing Him intimately and treating others precisely the way you see Christ Jesus treating them. Do unto others as you'd have Christ do unto them, according to Colossians 3:12-17, 1John 2:5-6, 1John 4:17, et. al., and obviously pursuing anything He tells you to pursue with your life as you pursue Him more and more and more, make sure He's first, and then do only those things you see Christ do. All of that grows out of your time in the Written Word so that by the Written Word you're changed from glory to glory.
More about what is our job in life
Yesterday I was meditating on Psalm 23 - on what the Shepherd was doing, and the job of the sheep in there.Shepherd was pretty much doing everything.
Sheep had to- allow themselves to be lead
- eat from the green pastures
- drink from the water He took them to
- allow Him to restore their soul
- come and dine with Him
- trust in His rod and staff when they went through the valley of the shadow of death and not fear
- bring their empty cups so He could fill it up
- come into His house where He invited them to dwell all the days of their lives
So there was nothing about self discipline and works programs there.
Answer:
Well, you do have to eat and drink and be merry because tomorrow we die to the way we've lived and are raised in newness of life with a recreated world according to 2Peter chapters 1 and 3. I've been rethinking daily communion again, today, 'til at least summer time 'cause it would obviously push me further into the Word to keep it fresh and full of His Presence and 12 legions of angels. No conviction yet to do that, but I may do it for a few days, anyway, and see if what begins in the flesh ends up in the Spirit, and if I fall off of the waggon on consistently doing that again, then obviously it's not where God was ready to give the increase and the grace at this particular season, and I'm not going to feel remotely condemned for not maintaining the regimen when God hasn't specifically spoken it to me nor by other means quickened the revelation of the Word that I already have on the matter..
Our job in life is to make it very easy for Holy Spirit to totally take us over, and obviously a weekly trip to the pizza buffet isn't likely to facilitate His invasion of my world, but if He were to choose to, my latching on to the bread and cup for a few days may trigger a response if I take that into my prayer and meditation closet
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Sheep had to- allow themselves to be lead
- eat from the green pastures
- drink from the water He took them to
- allow Him to restore their soul
- come and dine with Him
- trust in His rod and staff when they went through the valley of the shadow of death and not fear
- bring their empty cups so He could fill it up
- come into His house where He invited them to dwell all the days of their lives
So there was nothing about self discipline and works programs there.
Answer:
Well, you do have to eat and drink and be merry because tomorrow we die to the way we've lived and are raised in newness of life with a recreated world according to 2Peter chapters 1 and 3. I've been rethinking daily communion again, today, 'til at least summer time 'cause it would obviously push me further into the Word to keep it fresh and full of His Presence and 12 legions of angels. No conviction yet to do that, but I may do it for a few days, anyway, and see if what begins in the flesh ends up in the Spirit, and if I fall off of the waggon on consistently doing that again, then obviously it's not where God was ready to give the increase and the grace at this particular season, and I'm not going to feel remotely condemned for not maintaining the regimen when God hasn't specifically spoken it to me nor by other means quickened the revelation of the Word that I already have on the matter..
Our job in life is to make it very easy for Holy Spirit to totally take us over, and obviously a weekly trip to the pizza buffet isn't likely to facilitate His invasion of my world, but if He were to choose to, my latching on to the bread and cup for a few days may trigger a response if I take that into my prayer and meditation closet
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More about St. Paul and his concern about preaching to others and then missing his own race..
Yeah, I understand. St. Paul lived by his Romans chapter 4 sermon of counting not his own body, but only that which God has promised and the specific promise he seemed to be walking out was the conversion and discipleship of the nations, so while preaching against being bound by the works of the law related to animal sacrifices, the Aaronic priesthood, etc., he still circumcised Timothy which seemed to express his own mentality though many view it as weakness in faith, confusion in the matter, bowing to the pressures of Judaism, or whatever. But for him, the works of the law we weren't to be justified by is explained for us in Hebrews related to animal sacrifices and observances related to the priesthood of Aaron, that if you slip into that, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins. But he seems to have never shaken circumcision, or pruning away the flesh, if by any means he might save some.
Nothing related to keeping the Word or severity against the physical body appears to be related to St. Paul's definition of trying to be justified by the works of the law, but appears to be his understanding of miracles by the hearing of faith in Galatians 3, since according to the book of James, what profits you is being a doer of the Word that you hear. He'd run like a crazed maniac right into what he knew was going to be a beating, a stoning, an arrest, etc. Colossians 2 will say not to expect justification by asceticism, so besides the gnosticism he was combating, he was obviously keeping his own thinking firmly rooted in the finished work of Christ rather than allowing himself a name on the foundation of New Jerusalem based upon his degree of severity with himself. But he did want to see the nations discipled. That's the biggy. That's what he didn't want to fall short of. People get weird about him not wanting to lose his crown, but the point of the crown was the acheiving of the objectives and not a falling out with God, as though that were ever remotely possible after all Christ Jesus did on the Cross
Nothing related to keeping the Word or severity against the physical body appears to be related to St. Paul's definition of trying to be justified by the works of the law, but appears to be his understanding of miracles by the hearing of faith in Galatians 3, since according to the book of James, what profits you is being a doer of the Word that you hear. He'd run like a crazed maniac right into what he knew was going to be a beating, a stoning, an arrest, etc. Colossians 2 will say not to expect justification by asceticism, so besides the gnosticism he was combating, he was obviously keeping his own thinking firmly rooted in the finished work of Christ rather than allowing himself a name on the foundation of New Jerusalem based upon his degree of severity with himself. But he did want to see the nations discipled. That's the biggy. That's what he didn't want to fall short of. People get weird about him not wanting to lose his crown, but the point of the crown was the acheiving of the objectives and not a falling out with God, as though that were ever remotely possible after all Christ Jesus did on the Cross
Yieldedness and looking unto Jesus
I want to know how you understand yieldedness and resting in God and looking unto Jesus Yielding is simply keeping every thought captive to the obedience of the Written Word in 2Corinthians 10 and keeping every care cast upon Him according to 1Peter 5, resting in God is entering into the rest of all of the promises of the Written Word that He's illuminated to you in your feeding upon the Written Word as though they're settled realities, inspite of current circumstances -- in addition to those things He's spoken to you as your meditation time in the Written Word has borne the fruit of casting out all fear, coveteousness, and licentousness. There is no yielding unless like Abraham in Romans 4 you're counting not your own body/circumstances, but only that which God has promised and are fully persuaded giving glory to God in the Name of Jesus according to Colossians 2:6-7 and Colossians 3:17. Looking unto Jesus would obviously be looking unto all He did on the Cross for our sanctification and translation into the world He has for us to live in this life, and pursuing the imitation of our risen Lord that all things are finished and all of His glory, possessions, wisdom, knowledge, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption is 100% ours according to John 17, 1Corinthians 1:30, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 3, Romans 5:17. People misread 1Peter 2 all of the time about following His example and don't read the part about "by whose stripes ye were healed" in the 24th verse, which is telling you what to imitate of His life -- the miracles, the meekness and lowliness, yes, but the power as well as the purity and simplicity. 1Peter 3 is still talking about imitating Him when it then cites the situation of Sarah calling Abraham YHVH, the meek and quiet spirit with inward adornment that's as rich and pregnant as one's Song of Solomon adornment, keeping every Word in line with an already completed Psalm 112 life in the 10th verse of 1Peter 3, and counting everything one goes through as a seed, the way Christ did, for better tomorrows for the whole world in the 4th chapter, by keeping every care cast upon Him and His Written Word in 1Peter 5.
Worship in Spirit and Truth
I want to know how you see worship in spirit and truth to beWorshipping in Spirit and in truth according to John's Gospel isn't tied to a physical location. In 1John it's referred to as not loving merely in words but in deed and in truth. In Ephesians and Colossians, it's cultivating a relationship with Holy Spirit with the Written Word dwelling in your heart richly in all wisdom -- as well as those things that He says to you dwelling in you richly in all wisdom and fullness. Worshipping in Spirit and truth is obviously what's referred to in Zechariah as walking up and down in His Name in chapter 10, verse 12. Luke 6:40 would refer to this as being conformed to the image and likeness of one's master to where if they've seen you, they've seen Christ. Romans 5:17, Philippians 2:5, Philippians 3:17, Colossians 3:16-17, Philippians 4:9, 1Corinthians 4:16, 1Corinthians 11:1, 1John 2:5-6, 1John 4:17, Ephesians 5:1, Philemon 1:17, Colossians 2:6-7, 1Thessalonians 2:3-12, and other similar, related passages would be involved. Truth according to John 17 is the Written Word and obviously anything else Father is ongoingly saying that's based on the Written Word in the accomplishment of His image and purposes in the earth. Worshipping in the spirit is a loaded question 'cause it involves all that I've already said, plus a fruitful prayer language in other tongues according to Ephesians 6, Ephesians 5, 1Corinthians 14, and other passages that speak of it, where there's both thanksgiving and mysteries being spoken in the spirit and fruitful interpretation coming out by faith where you exercise your faith to be given the wisdom and understanding of all you've said in other tongues -- which obviously would be an equivalent of prophecy if you were receiving by faith both the manifestation and understanding of what no man understands with his natural mind 'cause you're speaking mysteries, but are giving thanks well for the manifestation and understanding as we're told to do in 1Corinthians.
Practising the Presence of God
I want to know all I can about Practising the Presence of God an becoming spiritually fit and developing my spiritual sensesIt would be good for you to begin reading Mark 4, Ephesians, and 1John every single day because Romans 12 says we're transformed by the renewing of our mind. The word "transformed" there actually is the exact same word for "transfigured." Galatians 4:19 speaks of the travail of spiritual fathers until Christ is formed inside of believers, or to where their inner image of themselves is the exact same as their inner image of Christ Jesus. That takes total immersion in the Scriptures that speak the most to that divine nature that we're partakers of, according to 2Peter 1, and a willingness and diligence to do all we're told to do by those Scriptures, AS THOUGH WE WERE HIM, when we understand what He's telling us to do, moment by moment, by our moment by moment life in those Scriptures. 1John in particular dealt with everything even remotely hard or harsh in my personality in the 90s 'cause I'd sit on the couch reading it from start to finish aloud over and over and over again for hours 'til literally His manifested love would BATHE me, and according to that very book, the more I saw Him in it, the more I became like Him 'cause I was seeing Him as He is.It would obviously help to supplement with that spending the last few minutes of your day as you're trying to fall asleep confessing over and over again "God loves me" 'til He breaks through to you with another revelation of the depth of His love for you. Growth obviously begins from a place of wholeness and that's the way to deal with any internal cracks in one's emotions, self esteem, etc., and you'll find your boldness going to the 10th and 1000th powers as fear is literally cast out by immersing in the Scriptures like that, particularly 1John that has to do with fullness of joy, being separated from sin, being kept by the Written Word so that wicked one can't touch you -- whether you're talking about the devil or any adversaries out here in the natural realm. Ever heard the stories about the Apostle John being the one they couldn't kill, though they boiled him in oil, 'til he was finally exiled to Patmos where he received the book of Revelation? Faith works by love, and you'll never hear Him beyond your dimension of understanding of the depth of His love for you, and as faith works BY LOVE, it'll quench all of the firey darts of the wicked one, in Ephesians 6, again, whether natural or spiritual principalities and powers. Perfected love IS your immortality, and 1John 2:5 says that those that keep His Word, in them the love of God is PERFECTED. That was available to each of the Apostles and New Testament ministries, just the same as it's been available to all of us ever since, but obviously that's a further level and a required level of diligence to the Written Word and to walking in love than most people are willing to submit their lives to 'cause like Martha in the Gospels, there's so much to be done, afterall, when Lord Jesus still says "one thing is needful" and He's the same as always in not taking that good part that's chosen by the Mary's that'll sit at His feet. He'd of multiplied the food Himself and fed all of 'em, if Martha had done the same thing, not worrying about nearly 100 folks being with Jesus since the 70 others were with Him and that's why she was likely freaking that there was too much to be done and Mary wasn't helping, that worthless lazy thing, in her estimation. roflol But Jesus said to relax 'cause only one thing was needful -- time in the Word. But He wasn't going to tell her that He knew what He was going to do, as when He multiplied the loaves for the crowds, if she'd simply come in line and had submitted to His yoke and had been willing to learn of Him 'cause of His meekness and lowliness of heart that would have brought rest and refreshing to her soul 'cause His yoke always has been and always will be easy, and His burden always has been and always will be light. If He didn't tell Philip what He had in mind, while Philip was still questioning the meeting of all of these needs rather than listening to what He'd already been saying, then why was He going to tell her, if she wasn't listening and yielding, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of her faith, and entering into His rest, i.e. His teachings and the way He'd intended to meet every single need?
Reconsiling this dispensation with the eternal perspective shared by Universalism
I want to know how you reconcile the concept that I grew up with, that we live now in the dispensation of grace...with the concept that reconciliation will continue throughout all times, if I understand you correctly? So I'm just not sure about dispensations and where I may be believing lies... Ephesians 2, that in the ages to come He'd show us the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. Judgment, destruction, and death are very real, but aren't God's ultimate intent for each life in Creation. He's not creating eternal duality and an ever-increasing kingdom of darkness that would be implicit if everytime someone messed up -- off into eternal hell with 'em, decapitated of the Head of every man in the Scriptures. 1John 2:1-2 says He's the propitiation for our sins and also for the sins of the whole world. He's the lamb of God who has taken away the sin of the Lord according to John 1:29. Philippians 3 closes with saying He's able to conform all things to Himself with the same power that He's conforming our physical bodies into being like His, multi-dimensional, deathless one.
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New Age bliss experiences
I want to understand what the bliss is that the new agers experience when they tap into consciousness (whatever that may be) and via the Kundalini (false Holy Spirit?) and the opening of chakras (which some of them believe to be the seals of Revelations) connect with "the universe". I believed this to be the created energy, but I don't know for sure. And perhaps I am not supposed to want to know. But even if you tell me I am not supposed to want to know, I still want to know, for it really puzzles me....I believe those are flood gates of spiritual power that are opened up, and if it's not happening via further and further conformity with Christ Jesus via the Written Word and being disciplined by and to it, then demons are uniting them more and more with Hell and the nature of Hell, all of it's confusion and deception.
Via New Age ways and practices, it's nothing but a dead fallen spirit being activated and it may bring a tiny dimension of expanded thought, some warding off of diseases, and perhaps a few dollars or other aspects of possessions, authority, and influence in this world -- but the New Birth, or being born from above; the regeneration of one's spirit into His image and likeness out of Adam's fall, is only from Him, obviously, and ultimate power and authority is only found with Him and His Word and only flow freely from His Cross, Blood, and Resurrection. But people that are still dead in sin, still have a spirit even though it's alienated from God's world by their death in trespasses -- it's still a spirit that can be stirred up and probably still is a strong enough one to get them out of circumstances that their minds and limited information via mental channels would never get them out of. But obviously, the pleasure in sin is only for a season, and Isaiah talks about Hell stirring up the dead and coming closer to meet them, and that's not a pretty place to find one's self in to have gained the whole world via means other than submission to Him and to have lost one's soul
Via New Age ways and practices, it's nothing but a dead fallen spirit being activated and it may bring a tiny dimension of expanded thought, some warding off of diseases, and perhaps a few dollars or other aspects of possessions, authority, and influence in this world -- but the New Birth, or being born from above; the regeneration of one's spirit into His image and likeness out of Adam's fall, is only from Him, obviously, and ultimate power and authority is only found with Him and His Word and only flow freely from His Cross, Blood, and Resurrection. But people that are still dead in sin, still have a spirit even though it's alienated from God's world by their death in trespasses -- it's still a spirit that can be stirred up and probably still is a strong enough one to get them out of circumstances that their minds and limited information via mental channels would never get them out of. But obviously, the pleasure in sin is only for a season, and Isaiah talks about Hell stirring up the dead and coming closer to meet them, and that's not a pretty place to find one's self in to have gained the whole world via means other than submission to Him and to have lost one's soul
How to see the suffering of St. Paul and other saints?
I want to understand what to do with the suffering of the apostle Paul, Stefan and the other 12 in the context of your teaching about the overflowing (Eden type) life you describe God wants us to have on this earth.The suffering of the believer is in being a partaker in the fellowship of His sufferings, according to Philippians 3. Our part of His sufferings is our deliverance and our authority in Him, and having done all to stand, stand therefore, refusing to be moved from our secure place of walking in His love as Him in this world, according to 1John 4:17, Colossians 3:16-17, 1John 2:5-6, and a lot of other passages in both the Old and New Testament that spoke of this coming grace that would be ours. They suffered to get this message out, while obviously still having to walk it out in their own lives. We're heirs of all that they sowed for in their self sacrifice to "complete what's lacking in the afflictions of Christ" as St. Paul put it in Colossians 1. Our suffering is in being immoveable in every good word and work -- not in laying down under persecution. Which is harder on the flesh? Being called every name in the book and merely being silent, or going the extra mile and fasting and praying for your enemies? Lord Jesus taught allowing what's stolen from you to be accounted as a seed towards His greater blessings in one's life: if they want your coat, let 'em have your shirt as well, etc. Our sufferings are a matter of being just the same as Him, yesterday, today, and forever, because we live on the same Written Word that He lives on yesterday, today, and forever. 1Peter 3 says that if you'd see length of life and good days to guard your tongue 'cause that's what the whole spirit realm is watching out for -- the Lord in that verse, I'm thinking verse 10, and Satan and Hell are watching it in James chapter 3 for permission for the course of nature -- yours and the nature around you -- to be set on fire of Gehenna. Either our Words are the release of His Spirit into all of the world and upon all flesh for the salvation of Creation -- or, wars and other upheavals arise out of the lusts that wage war against our minds and mouths according to 1Peter 1 and James chapter 1, because we're asking amiss and not keeping it on the straight and narrow according to the Perfect Law of Liberty.
More about the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ
I want to understand what the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, the seven Spirits of God and the Spirit of the Bride, is. How is this the same and how different.....I really don't quite get it and I know its like entry level basics....Can you help?I'm not sure about a Spirit of the Bride would be. Seems like an extrabiblical term that may relate to a counterpart to the anointing that I've had on me for nearly 3yrs as the Groom He's been preparing. But if you're referring to in the last couple of chapters of Revelation where it says that the Spirit and the Bride say "come, take of the water of life freely..." then the Spirit would be the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of the prophets according to 1Corinthians 14 where it talks about the spirits of the prophets being subject to the prophets. The Bride in Revelation is the New Jerusalem, what's called the City of Truth in Zechariah, and to me that's simply the New Covenant that both the Old and New Testament saints are walking in. People get into debates about whether or not that's the people of God that would make up that city, whether or not it's literally a solid gold city that bleeds through out of the spiritual realm either from another world or that as in heaven so in earth that people ultimately are so prosperous and Christ centered that Jerusalem comes into it's finest hour in another thousand or two years -- but to me, it's simply the riches of the New Covenant that we have in Christ Jesus 'cause besides all of the other promises of spiritual and peace of mind promises, there's the promises of health and wealth inherent in that Covenant that'll always be sufficient for any need that would ever come up. We're told elsewhere that it's the Father's good pleasure to give us the Kingdom and that the Kingdom of God is within us, in the Gospels. So, the reality of what Zechariah calls "The City of Truth" being within us would obviously be the principles of the Kingdom, of obedience to His call, and of union to the people and purposes He calls our life into. 7 Spirits of God in Revelation are referred to as His 7 eyes, I believe, in Zechariah, and in Isaiah 11 we're told about 7 Spirits of God and it gives the names of them in the second verse: 2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. Looking at the above verse more closely: 1. Spirit of Lordship, which would be dominion and authority -- that "Presence" that a General or a King just walked in; 2. Spirit of wisdom; 3. Spirit of understanding; 4. Spirit of counsel; 5. Spirit of might, or what's called it's equivalent in the New Testament "joy"; 6. Spirit of knowledge (probably inclusive of what you were asking me about regarding seeing who I'm talking with); 7. Spirit of the fear of the Lord, which is obviously the supernatural power to repent, to obey Him, of effortless submission to Him as Saul on the Road to Damascus in Acts 9, etc. Holy Spirit is all 7 of these that I've just listed and these are aspects of His Nature and Power and Purpose. In John's Gospel, chapters 14-17 we're told that He's the one that reminds us of all Lord Jesus has said to us, is the one that leads us into all truth, and according to Acts 1, He's the one that supernaturally empowers a supernatural Christian life to testify to God's grace, what's happened at the Cross and in the resurrection, and our becoming the world's experience of everything that Lord Jesus is. Spirit of Christ is sorta the same thing in the Scriptures, but contextually will be alluding to one of the above 7 fold gift of Christ that He gave when He ascended on high in Ephesians chapters 4 through 6 and gave gifts to men: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, the Marriages He's intended, and Children (whether physical or spiritual children). The Word Christ is actually drawing your attention to this supernatural power rather than specifically referring to either an Office He holds or whatever, because we're called in Scripture the Body of Christ. Those 7 gifts He gave to men when He ascended far above all the heavens correspond to the 7 days of Creation, with marriage obviously being the 6th of those and relating to the 6th day when God brought Woman out of Adam, when the side of Adam's genes was no longer XX but had the "\" removed to form Woman and he became XY instead of XX because the "\" was removed from the side of his genes, and from then onwards, the image of God has always been distinctly in the couples He'd put together rather than either one being complete by themselves in Him.The Word "Christian" and the Word "Christ" should mean absolutely nothing different in our minds from each other. They're both the same thing, as far as how the Scriptures would understand it, though of course pastors and theologians may try to make a distinction. Zero difference. Means anointed with His anointing and we're annointed with the exact same anointing according to 2Corinthians chapter 1 and 1John chapters 2 and 3 where we're called the Anointed Sons of God -- i.e. the confession of Peter about Christ is expanded to all of the rest of us that we're the Christ, the Son of the living God according to the riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. The anointing according to Isaiah 10:27 is yoke destroying, burden removing supernatural power. Isaiah 61 is what Lord Jesus preached from everywhere He went, besides Leviticus 25 with announcing Himself as Liberty throughout all of the land, and He tells you in Isaiah 61 what the liberty is supposed to be from: broken heartedness, blindness, liberty to the captives (i.e. those in Hell would be included since according to Zechariah, I'm thinking 9th chapter, by the Blood of His Covenant the prisoners are set free from the waterless pit, and in Hosea 2, the valley of Achor is made a door of hope. The valley of Achor is the valley of the shadow of death: it's where Achan was stoned to death -- yet there's a door of hope for those judged by the Law. So we see Christ Jesus in the New Testament defending the woman caught in adultery for whom the stoning was due. Book of Jeremiah, I'm thinking the 17th chapter, maybe, says that they'd be written in the earth -- those that had forsaken Him, the fountain of living waters. Interesting thing about Him stooping down and writing on the ground while they were accusing and dictating to Him the demands of the Law and the stupid debates there have been about what He wrote, when we're told in Jeremiah He was writing their names. Additionally, that was stony ground He was writing in. So, He's essentially taking His finger and writing in stones
He died as a seed to bring forth much fruit, according to His own teachings, and was raised from the dead to make sure it happened. Each reference to Christ in the New Testament is a reference to that New Testament power upon all believers, that's to flow through believers, and that's rooted in the High Priestly ministry of Christ Jesus that the book of Hebrews outlines for us and makes us aware of to be on the lookout for references to it in the rest of what the Bible has to say about Him as He lives His resurrected life through us since He left 3 dimensional existence in His ascension before them in Acts 1 and Ephesians 4 when He ascended far above all of the heavens in order to fill all things.
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He died as a seed to bring forth much fruit, according to His own teachings, and was raised from the dead to make sure it happened. Each reference to Christ in the New Testament is a reference to that New Testament power upon all believers, that's to flow through believers, and that's rooted in the High Priestly ministry of Christ Jesus that the book of Hebrews outlines for us and makes us aware of to be on the lookout for references to it in the rest of what the Bible has to say about Him as He lives His resurrected life through us since He left 3 dimensional existence in His ascension before them in Acts 1 and Ephesians 4 when He ascended far above all of the heavens in order to fill all things.
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More on discernment
I believe that blessing on those that hunger and thirst for righteousness is a major part of it, for those that only want His will
Discernment is a product of obedience to the Written Word to meditate in it, to live by it, and to associate yourself in a way with ministries already operating in those gifts where there's mutual edification in the spread of the Gospel. It's something that can be grown into, something He can do on His own through you, and something that's a combination of both that can be caught by your dedication to a ministry or ministries that are flowing in those operations of faith and of His Spirit. In the message that I cited as a good idea for you to try to track down from Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Kenneth confided about how that opened up to him in his continual praying over his ministry partner letter that he sends the partners of his ministry every single month. I've noticed many pastors, in particular, that spend a lot of time praying over their congregations will begin to operate in that. So, evidently, it can either be an accompanyment of certain ministerial offices such as Apostles, Prophets, and Pastors, or is additionally "tapped into" via a whole lot of labor in loving prayers
Discernment is a product of obedience to the Written Word to meditate in it, to live by it, and to associate yourself in a way with ministries already operating in those gifts where there's mutual edification in the spread of the Gospel. It's something that can be grown into, something He can do on His own through you, and something that's a combination of both that can be caught by your dedication to a ministry or ministries that are flowing in those operations of faith and of His Spirit. In the message that I cited as a good idea for you to try to track down from Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Kenneth confided about how that opened up to him in his continual praying over his ministry partner letter that he sends the partners of his ministry every single month. I've noticed many pastors, in particular, that spend a lot of time praying over their congregations will begin to operate in that. So, evidently, it can either be an accompanyment of certain ministerial offices such as Apostles, Prophets, and Pastors, or is additionally "tapped into" via a whole lot of labor in loving prayers
Seeing somebody in the spirit as part of discernment
Will you please share with me how to do that, how do you see the face of somebody in the spirit? There's an element of being able to do that that I'm personally coming to the conclusion is a part of the redemption available in Christ from the curse that came upon mankind at the tower of babel. I'll explain some of my journey on it, lest just mentioning my experiences with it last year and what I was doing last year in any way gives you a false impression that "well of course you can do that if you did that last year -- can probably walk through walls and on water too!!" as you sighingly mentally retreat thinking it may never happen for you as a result. I believe had I not lived the last 3yrs that it would have likely happened for me eventually with regularity but perhaps not for another decade of growth in the spirit, perhaps two more decades, simply because of intellectual issues with me, and other things I'd of obviously had going on spiritually and would have been developing in those things instead. Lord Jesus said those that hunger and thirst for righteousness would be filled. About 20yrs ago, perhaps longer ago, I bumped into references to St. Paul doing it in 1st and 2nd Corinthians and Colossians, and I'd heard Kenneth E. Hagin teach back then that it was a part of the 1Corinthians 12 gift of "discerning of spirits" where you'd see things. I came into the understanding eventually though, through Kenneth and Gloria Copeland's ministry that the fruit of the recreated human spirit in Galatians 5 will do absolutely anything and everything that the gifts of the spirit in 1Corinthians 12 and elsewhere will do. Since you're in South Africa, see if Kenneth Copeland Ministries' South African office has available a teaching message called "Partners in Power" 'cause there's a teaching there on the grace of God through association with anointed ministries and how some things are caught via that covenantal bond that one comes into with one's prayers, gifts, and other forms of support and work with ministries where those gifts are in operation, and it's difficult to repreach a 90 minute message here while wanting to make other comments about it as well, without sending something impossibly long for you to read on your blackberry. Ephesians 3 and 1Corinthians 13 would indicate to me that seeing and knowing grows in proportion to one's growth in love. The book of Revelation promises as one of the rewards to the overcomers having a white stone being given to one that has a new name on it. The book of Zechariah in the Old Testament in describing what I believe to be this same stone mentions it having the 7 eyes of God, so, again, something related to perception growing would seem to be a part of walking out a walk of faith regarding any matter of the promises of God to completion to where a particular promise of His is inherited. If He gives guidance about the car, house, spouse, career, calling, or whatever that one is to function in or obtain with one's faith -- again, the one He's indicated -- and one receives that by faith, then there's also these other gifts promised in the first 3 chapters of Revelation that He'll give you besides for overcoming, and 1John says that our faith [which is the substance of things hoped for] is the victory that overcomes the world, and according to Romans 10:17 that comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Hebrews 6 talks about our level of expectation also going beyond the veil, sorta as a hologram and standing before the throne of grace -- so, as one's love and hope grow in intensity, then again, spiritual sight should be a growing accompanyment. Obviously some of the evangelist gifts in the Body of Christ that operate prophetically while ministering to the infirmed have walked out something with their faith in all likelihood to get to that point, based on all of the above, if it wasn't just sovereignly given from either birth or the realization of their calling later in life 'cause of what He wanted done anyway, regardless of where they're at spiritually.
More about our enemies...
Though the Lord has often called people to totally leave their old lives behind, including their families as in the cases of Abraham and Ruth, there are still many times when we're anointed by God to sleep with lions in a lion's den. How often were Jeremiah and Paul the most anointed when they were sitting in the presence of their enemies? Having enemies doesn't mean that one lacks a godly character! Often one is best known and loved and remembered in the light of who exactly it is that is presently hating them. Enmity is as much of a doctrine of the Scriptures as reconciliation, although enmity pertains to the ages while reconciliation belongs to eternity. Even though there's much talk of moderation today, a necessary attribute of godliness is to have a full and overflowing cup. Humanity knows this inherently and shows it's greatest reluctance to submitting to anything or anyone that doesn't fill one's cup to overflowing. I've often wondered upon this very idea, if the Lord has told everyone before they'd ever come into the world that they'd know Him and distinguish Him from all of the false gods in this, that He'd fill their cup to overflowing when they'd rediscovered Him!
More on Psalm 23
On second consideration of the 23rd Psalm, it is very evidently a written revelation of Christian godly character. From submission to the Lordship of Jesus Christ to the extent of being humble enough to allow Him to set a believer's prosperity before them, in any level that pleases Him, to sticking close with the Lord always, to allowing Him to prepare your bountiful table in the presence of anyone that it pleases Him to do so. Often as we would lay in green pastures beside still waters, there are enemies close at hand who would wish to challenge our right to those green pastures and still waters. Many often ignorantly want our green pastures and still waters without the association with our Lord that our green pastures and still waters are to us.
Another idea that's often come to me as I've read the 23rd Psalm is whether or not goodness and mercy are opposites. In this world there's often talk of a mercy killing, or of "in mercy" being put out of one's misery, when suffering has extended past what is conscionable. As much as mercy is often called an "unmerited favor" ( to contrast it with "grace"), there's often a sense of mercy expressed in the knowledge of "when" it can be said that "enough is enough." We often either whince too easily, or go to the opposite extremity of coldness on a lot of different issues in a lot of different lives that we come across. But my Shepherd will never whince nor grow too cold to fail to extend a nail pierced hand into any situation. Goodness is complete generosity rooted in absolute wisdom and might. If "riches" are the wisdom and might of God in your life, according to His plan and your spiritual and mental "DNA," then you'll either never lack them or they'll be yours at the first appropriate moment. But His absolute wisdom and His absolute might will introduce all things into your life at their appropriate season or moment of new beginnings for them in your life. Can your Shepherd trust you yet? Never fear and never worry. His rod, staff, and anointing oil will bring you into the place, state of mind, and expression of His being through you until you are the person you've always been meant to be! The Lord leads me beside the still waters; He restores my soul. There is something that is called the "stream of consciousness" that is very familiar to a lot of writers and school teachers. In literature, or in literary circles the stream of consciousness has to do with the general flow of a piece. Though preachers, including the Lord Himself, when He was on earth, are often loud, there is something quiet, still, and quietening about the promises and judgments of the Lord. The teaching of the Lord, once it creates an obedient heart in a human being, has an uncanny way of bringing a lot of stillness. He leads in paths of righteousness for His Name's sake. It is His leading that is for His Name's sake and not merely that the paths that He chooses and prepares are righteous for His Name's sake. And as your Shepherd, He'll ensure that those paths are there, that they're accessible, and that they're in the presence of your enemies.
Another idea that's often come to me as I've read the 23rd Psalm is whether or not goodness and mercy are opposites. In this world there's often talk of a mercy killing, or of "in mercy" being put out of one's misery, when suffering has extended past what is conscionable. As much as mercy is often called an "unmerited favor" ( to contrast it with "grace"), there's often a sense of mercy expressed in the knowledge of "when" it can be said that "enough is enough." We often either whince too easily, or go to the opposite extremity of coldness on a lot of different issues in a lot of different lives that we come across. But my Shepherd will never whince nor grow too cold to fail to extend a nail pierced hand into any situation. Goodness is complete generosity rooted in absolute wisdom and might. If "riches" are the wisdom and might of God in your life, according to His plan and your spiritual and mental "DNA," then you'll either never lack them or they'll be yours at the first appropriate moment. But His absolute wisdom and His absolute might will introduce all things into your life at their appropriate season or moment of new beginnings for them in your life. Can your Shepherd trust you yet? Never fear and never worry. His rod, staff, and anointing oil will bring you into the place, state of mind, and expression of His being through you until you are the person you've always been meant to be! The Lord leads me beside the still waters; He restores my soul. There is something that is called the "stream of consciousness" that is very familiar to a lot of writers and school teachers. In literature, or in literary circles the stream of consciousness has to do with the general flow of a piece. Though preachers, including the Lord Himself, when He was on earth, are often loud, there is something quiet, still, and quietening about the promises and judgments of the Lord. The teaching of the Lord, once it creates an obedient heart in a human being, has an uncanny way of bringing a lot of stillness. He leads in paths of righteousness for His Name's sake. It is His leading that is for His Name's sake and not merely that the paths that He chooses and prepares are righteous for His Name's sake. And as your Shepherd, He'll ensure that those paths are there, that they're accessible, and that they're in the presence of your enemies.
Pre-existance
In terms of the slippery slope of pre-existence, for many people that's problematic because to them, they believe it implies reincarnation in the traditional Eastern and even Greek senses, such as things you'd find in Hinduism and Aristotle. For others, the passage from Jeremiah chapter 1 about having been foreknown, foreappreciated, foreadored, and foreappointed to be a prophet to the nations will speak volumes to them. Jesus saying to continue in His Words as one's own in John's Gospel and then in the 17th chapter requesting to be reclothed with His former glory is deeply suggestive, and then the language of Ephesians 1 about being blessed before the beginning of time and the language of the book of Titus about having received the promises of age-abiding life before the beginning of time will add to the suggestiveness of Scripture for them about preexistence. To me, however, it's easily an itchy ears doctrine that St. Paul would warn about -- too easily 'cept when Holy Spirit indicates to "go there" in a given context where it may at the moment seem appropriate and for some, oddly enough, empowering. A more significant, more important understanding from the Scriptures is from this whole area of the Judeo-Christian perspective that God created the heavens and the earth, including the space and time dimensions that we encounter and isn't a part of them in the Hindu sense although all being and all tangibility does eminate from Him. God preexisting humanity and not being a creation of man's superstitions and not being a misinterpretation of man's circumstances, but His additional qualities besides preexistence of being personal, loving, and determined to bring to pass all of His promises of both destruction and restoration -- no matter what -- through the man He's appointed to oversee these things, according to Acts 17, Christ Jesus -- to me, that's more interesting, more important, more suggestive, more helpful, and more enlightening than merely the 'eternal' debates about whether or not we're as old as He is, older than the universe, or whatever. The 23rd Psalm does indeed highlight and outline His 'eternal' plan, and a shepherd presupposes not only a resting place of safety, but many dangers that require the oversight of a shepherd, the obedience of the sheep, or the necessity of breaking their legs so that they'll leave their nonsense and cleave to the shepherd, lest they fall into a worser pit. The 23rd Psalm is a very pregnant Psalm indeed. It's the furthest from being anywhere near the most pregnant Psalm in terms of the knowledge of the Lord, but it's got quite a bit more richness to it than I've yet seen in any commentaries on it. Most people with the few minutes they're willing to give the Word of God every week could easily spend a lifetime gaining insight from the 23rd Psalm. The 23rd Psalm applies to each life form in God's Creation, including to any pets that you have. He's their Shepherd as well. Only -- goodness and kindness pursue me, All the days of my life, And my dwelling [is] in the house of Jehovah, For a length of days! (Psalm 23:6 Young's Literal Translation) Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place. (Psalm 23:6 Amplified Bible) Surely, goodness and loving-kindness shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of Jehovah for the length of the days. (Psalm 23:6 Darby Translation) I'm continually amazed when I still get the question, "If animal exploitation is cruel, then why did God look the other way for so many centuries?" It is a deep question that merits a lot of consideration even among Christian Animal Gospel teachers/practitioners. At the same time, when this question is coming from a critic, this is like a first century Jewish Christian objecting to the Holy Spirit being poured out upon the Gentiles on the basis of God's sanctioned cruelty towards the Gentiles at the time of the Exodus, the taking of the promised land, and throughout Jewish history. Such a "clever" argument never came up in Acts chapter 15 because it became increasingly clear to most who were present at that debate over whether or not a Gentile could become a Christian that God's previous judgments didn't preclude the possibility of future mercies to those who were once harshly judged and delivered over to corruption and death by the Lord. The Lord has always had to contend with the hardness of the human heart. And if there was indeed a preexistent state for each of us prior to the creation of the world as some Bible teachers are insisting upon, then perhaps the hardness of the human heart was present even back then. And perhaps this cruel world was created in order to give each of us hard yet practical lessons about hardness of heart and why the Lord is always right about everything! God will continue to contend with the hardness of the human heart until He's acheived His eternal objectives of humility, obedience, justice, mercy, and the love of the truth in every heart. I am not implying that animals have been more wicked in previous generations. I am saying that God is visiting every issue of hardness with every heart until He's achieved His intents with every heart. If God never did any more in the hearts and minds of animals than He's already done, and if there were no seeds of more to come in any animal anywhere, that wouldn't let you or me off of the hook with all that the Lord has ever intended for you and I to become! You and I are not [personally] accountable for the last several thousands of years. We don't even know the whole story of the last several thousand years. And if we feel any sense of shame about it, what does it profit us? It neither wipes the history books clean of the atrocities nor brings healing to the Creation around us at the present time. It doesn't atone for what's already happened long before we came along. History has usually been written by the winning side or even by the most prejudicial side of conflicts. There are basic assumptions that are made by archaeologists and anthropologists. Archaeologists, anthropologists, and evolutionary biologists subscribe to certain levels of an academic creed or faith in order to proceed with their investigations. Until Christ returns, they may never know the full story about our past and about their assumptions of a certain continuity to history that they've relied heavily upon to reconstruct for us the best picture of our origins that they can personally come up with. None of us knows for certain how long animal cruelty has been universally practiced and whether there have been generational, century, or millenial gaps in various animal cruelty practices. The past could be hundreds of times worse than we've ever imagined with many animal extinctions being the legacy of early humanity. There's also the possibility that the last 3 to 5 thousand years could be the worse that it's ever gotten - with the last century being the absolute worst. In purely sociological terms, human civil liberties as we understand them today, have only really been growing since the Magna Carta was signed in 1215A.D. However, the Holy Bible is the Magna Carta of Christianity, sealed in the Blood of God. It's pages dictate that compassion must be our first priority and final course of action. I say "final" because it's the lesson that the Lord insists that we each learn, and because in practice it hasn't always been the starting point for each of us. Compassion is our final authority in all matters of faith, practice, civil duty, and self sacrifice to God. If there were no room for growth and if tradition and the continuity of our traditions inherently made things morally sound, then we'd each ignore the last 800 years of struggle of human history for human liberty and we'd submit ourselves once again to absolute monarchies that are subject to no restraint but their own whims of coveteousness, squeamishness, or blood thirst. When we ask ourselves how so many generations of human beings on planet earth could have been so wrong about animals, we tend to overlook the prejudices of human beings of former eras even towards other human beings! To put it bluntly, if other human beings didn't even have equal standing in the eyes of our ancestors, then is it any wonder that animals were thought to be nothing more than "leather," "milk," "wool," "cheese," "eggs," "silk," and every other demeaning form of "property" and idea? Revelation 6:8 talks from the human vantage point of humans being afflicted by the animals during the judgments of the future and of perhaps what some would call the "tribulation." Whether this affliction is through the exploitation for consumption of cloned animals or simply the oppressor's views of a slave revolt on the part of the last remaining oppressed animals, at that time, through God's prophesied decrees of their freedom from exploitation, let the reader decide. As a clear example: haven't God's kindnesses to one race of people always been perceived as tremendous judgment on others? I take the Revelation 6:8 passage to involve God's continued work of grace where the beasts of the earth are concerned. The book of Revelation is a collage of God's wrath. The wrath of God is essentially God's projectile love. It's God's insistence upon His own rights and ways, when His gentlemanly qualities haven't made enough of an impression regarding His will. One of the Greek words repeatedly used by both St. John and by St. Paul in their writings that gets translated as "wrath" is the same Greek word that we get the English words "orgy" and "orgasm" from. It's the intensity of Who God is, upon those He's everlastingly committed to that are falling short of intimacy with Him and obedience to His will. It's the intensity of God's ultimate designs for all of Creation everywhere. It's His rejection of our rejection of His will. His Biblical and New Testament "wrath" is when He denies our denial of His will. It's His declaration that His position on the matter is nonnegotiable! [Check me out on that - the definition of "wrath" - in a Strong's Concordance and compare it with a few other lexicons. "Orge" (pronounced or'-gay) means and is used as "intensity of the Being." The only question that you're left with is the particular nature of the Being under consideration who is exploding Himself on everything and everyone in sight. What would be coming out of Him? How did Jesus move in "orge"? How did He treat sickness; disease; demonization; traditions of men that violated His will for their lives; women on the verge of being stoned; death; and unbelief? What was the motive? Isn't He Anointed Saviour - the same - yesterday, today, and to the age, according to Hebrews 13:8? If Isaiah 10:27 calls the anointing that flows from Him, "burden removing, yoke destroying power" then again, what was coming out of Him in the past? Do we have Scriptural reason to believe that He's the same Jesus with the same motivations to please the Father that's coming back soon? Read Isaiah 40 sometime. You'll be glad that you did.]
The sower and the seed
Mark 4
Martin reminded me that God produces life through His Word.
Everything starts as a Word that falls in the heart of man,
and has the potential to bring forth a hundred fold harvest.
"It's when there's such a Word and then someone refuses to enter in, then He lets 'em die in the wilderness. A lot of people preach the 3rd and 4th chapters of Hebrews about God's general Covenantal promises throughout the Written Word and there's likely an application there, but in my case with Him saying "there xxx is!" -- if I arranged my calendar around xxx exposing myself to situations with temptation, etc., after He's already declared that xxx, then everything that St. Paul warns about that can overtake someone in their own wilderness between where they were and their Promised Land becomes an issue. I'm in the land, right now, 'til xxx where snakes can get me, the ground can open up, and all of the other fun ways that people died for rebelling against Moses"
Martin reminded me that God produces life through His Word.
Everything starts as a Word that falls in the heart of man,
and has the potential to bring forth a hundred fold harvest.
"It's when there's such a Word and then someone refuses to enter in, then He lets 'em die in the wilderness. A lot of people preach the 3rd and 4th chapters of Hebrews about God's general Covenantal promises throughout the Written Word and there's likely an application there, but in my case with Him saying "there xxx is!" -- if I arranged my calendar around xxx exposing myself to situations with temptation, etc., after He's already declared that xxx, then everything that St. Paul warns about that can overtake someone in their own wilderness between where they were and their Promised Land becomes an issue. I'm in the land, right now, 'til xxx where snakes can get me, the ground can open up, and all of the other fun ways that people died for rebelling against Moses"
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